Posted by mnh1232003 on Tue, Mar 12, 2019, at 6:56 PM:
With high school basketball officially over with, who will be the top teams next year? I really only watched Sikeston play this year and I don't see them being as strong next year but what about the other teams like Oran, Cape and Charleston? Do they lose a lot to graduation or do they have the JV players to replace the seniors?
Replies (80)
The way I see it Sikeston won’t be AS good, Oran won’t be AS good, Cape C won’t be AS good and Charleston will be better! ND should be decent, NMCC no better than .500, don’t know lot about Jackson, Kennett will be better, Campbell could be factor in class 2, probably no real strong class 1 school in the area, but usually a surprise team will emerge and next year will be no exception!
-- Posted by indian73 on Tue, Mar 12, 2019, at 11:25 PM
Oran should be good. They have 5 of top 6 players back on a team built on teamwork and sharing the ball. However, they lose probably the best boys player theyve had, atleast in last 45 years. Shoemaker was the best leader i've saw come through the school. His ability and leadership will be hard to replace.
-- Posted by vman on Wed, Mar 13, 2019, at 12:14 PM
Vman, regardless if Oran is class 1 or 2 they will be hard to beat. I agree with you on that.
-- Posted by The deltan on Wed, Mar 13, 2019, at 6:44 PM
Bernie only lost 3 players and had a very successful JV team they will be solid.
Hayti loses a very good senior class but has several returning players and they will always be tough.
Campbell returns their top 7 varsity players from a 18-7 team. Will be the team to beat in Class 2.
-- Posted by TimeHop96 on Wed, Mar 13, 2019, at 7:55 PM
I never saw Fred Johnson play at Oran but Shoemaker was the best boys player I've ever seen come out of the school. He won't be able to be replaced.
-- Posted by dustymom on Thu, Mar 14, 2019, at 9:18 AM
No, he won't be replaced. But, his Dad has the uncanny ability to squeeze every bit of talent out of his players so I think they'll be fine.
-- Posted by gostlrams on Thu, Mar 14, 2019, at 11:08 AM
GOSTLRAMS,
I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT. RUMOR IS HE HAS BEEN NAMED AS NEW PRINCIPAL THOUGH. I'M HOPING HE STAYS ON AS COACH
-- Posted by dustymom on Thu, Mar 14, 2019, at 12:42 PM
If Shoemaker is the new principal and is not allowed to coach, will they promote from within?
-- Posted by ToeTheLine on Thu, Mar 14, 2019, at 1:08 PM
Fred was 6'2'' and could do it all! Plus Fred played tremendous defense in a time you played defense "with your feet". None of this holding, bumping and slapping like you see today!
-- Posted by Outfield on Thu, Mar 14, 2019, at 3:56 PM
Added to the mix of ones to watch out for next year, Delta and Scott City.
-- Posted by gregbrown80 on Thu, Mar 14, 2019, at 4:58 PM
Agree with devil74 about Fred Johnson at Oran. Very good all around player.
-- Posted by paulie4m on Fri, Mar 15, 2019, at 8:38 AM
No disrespect to this year's Oran team, or the one from two years ago, but it would be a hard sell to think that any of them could start for the 1969 team. That was an exceptional team that was the best team in Class M. Le Grande goes on to start at Rolla while the three others play for an outstanding 3-Rivers team.
-- Posted by Neversaynever on Fri, Mar 15, 2019, at 9:07 AM
1969 ... dribble, chest pass, bounce pass, chest pass, bounce pass, chest pass, bounce pass, chest pass, dribble, chest pass, bounce pass, chest pass, bounce pass,dribble, chest pass, bounce pass, chest pass, bounce pass, dribble, chest pass, bounce pass, chest pass, bounce pass, and shoot. 10 guys in short-shorts with 15” verticals run to other end of the court. Repeat.
Different era. It’s not a bad thing, but the comparison is apples and oran-ges.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Fri, Mar 15, 2019, at 10:47 AM
you obviously did not see them play.
-- Posted by taxpayer parent on Fri, Mar 15, 2019, at 1:54 PM
The 69 Oran team was tagged as the "Runnin Runts". They did get up and down the court in a hurry. They were not as deliberate as previously stated. But in defense of the post by vman concerning the Shoemaker, he did say in the last 45 years. That does not go back to the 69 team and the Johnson years.
-- Posted by joefrank78 on Fri, Mar 15, 2019, at 1:55 PM
Apples and oran-ges.These comparisons are as silly as saying the Lakers and Celtics teams of the 80s would have their way with the GSW.Times change. Games change.Athletes change.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Fri, Mar 15, 2019, at 4:57 PM
The Oran '69 team averaged 79.2 points a game. They did not play slowly like you said. Taxpayer parent is right. You obviously did not see them play. I saw every game.
-- Posted by minastirith on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 12:35 AM
Cowbell probably did not see the '69 Oran team play, but with his enormous imagination and even bigger ego he has attempted to tell us all about the team!
-- Posted by Outfield on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 10:23 AM
Don’t get your feelings hurt that you didn’t understand the swimming pool issue.
The idea that no one from this year’s Oran team would start for a team from 1969 is just ignorant.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 10:49 AM
More Cowbell- not sure who you are addressing here, but I'll jump in. Ignorant is simply your opinion, as well as those of us who saw both teams play have an opinion, that being that the '69 team was better! Try to read and enjoy a little history instead of using that worn out phrase about modern times being so much greater than the past.
-- Posted by Outfield on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 11:21 AM
It’s an assessment. It is ignorant to state that no one from this year’s team would start on a 1969 team.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 11:33 AM
You cannot fairly assess something if you never saw it More Cowbell
-- Posted by Outfield on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 12:31 PM
You’ve made another ignorant comment.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 12:39 PM
more cowcrap- Are you telling us you did see the '69 Oran team? Maybe your just tired and you are going to take your ball and go home to mommy!
-- Posted by Outfield on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 2:25 PM
You’re just one step from the mom’s basement comment that all you defeated keyboarders resort to.
Please give us your insight into why the ‘69 team wouldn’t let any of this year’s team start for them. I’m sure you’ll tell us why they wouldn’t have been good enough to start for Dixon either.
Has beens aren’t the problem, but has beens who can’t let go are. Tradition should be built upon.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 2:50 PM
Cow crap nice try with that VERY VERY OLD cliche of mom's basement but I haven't been in it for 45 years! Ain't ya got nuttin more kool than dat? In my opinion the '69 Oran team started and have helped preserve a very rich and envious basketball tradition for the community of Oran. Their gym is always full on game nights.The reasons for the '69 team being superior to nowadays are the obvious basketball observations... Better defense, better shooting, better natural athletes which includes being faster and better jumping ability. Better discipline on and off the court. Better coaching,fair and better officiating than you see today, better free throw shooting, as well as just overall better competition.
-- Posted by Outfield on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 3:42 PM
You missed the mom’s basement point. Read it more slowly.And you are oblivious to the game today if you really believe that a ‘69 team wouldn’t have a starter on it from today’s team.
There’s a great tradition in Oran.The game is played bigger, faster, and stronger.
And I love the officiating comment. Seems you forgot how that ‘69 team’s season ended.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 4:36 PM
More Cowcrap, I am willing to hear you out on Mom's basement, isn't that something about living there past age 30, but that is not the point being discussed. This is just another of your smartass replies when you have no valid point to make. Once again let me remind you that you did not see the '69 team, so where are the merits of your argument? Bigger, faster, stronger was a documentary about steroid use, please inform me of relevance, we are speaking of talent not measurements. I am well aware of the 10 second free throw call in the class M championship game which was made by an official named Gene Barth who later became one of the most respected NFL referees' ever. Such a horrible call MSHSAA removed the film of the closing moments from it's archives. I respect your belief that some of today's team could have started for '69 Oran and it seems you have constantly have repeated that with no valid merit other than that is what you think. Please read and comprehend this," having seen both teams play no one on '19 Oran could start for '69 Oran!!
-- Posted by Outfield on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 5:06 PM
You’ll need to read the mom’s basement comment even more slowly as it appears you’re struggling to understand.
You are, in fact, oblivious to make such a ridiculous statement about the ‘69 team being so talented as to not have an athlete from the current team starting. The game and the athletes today are bigger, faster, and stronger. Athletes will likely be better 40 years from now because that’s how things work.
No rational person sees the high school game from 40 years ago being competive today.It’s the ignorance of has beens to believe otherwise.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 5:17 PM
Good grief more cowshit don't you have anything new? Ignorance is your favorite word! I really don't understand how to make you realize that if you didn't see them play you can't judge the talent. Do you really believe as time passes that things always get better? I have seen my generation as well as yours, I'll take mine.
-- Posted by Outfield on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 6:12 PM
You’re so flustered! We see that time to time in has-beens who can’t move on.
There’s a small number of elite players who’s game of yesteryear translates. But theres far more Kurt Rambis-like players than Magic Johnson-like players.The game moves on.
It’s the same thing in football where 6-3, 350 pound players now have 30 inch verticals and run 4.8 forties. Same reason Usain Bolt is fast, but someone is faster.Same reason Navralatova would get a ball shot through her racket today.Same reason it’s more normal for pitchers to flirt with and roll past 100 m.p.h.
It’s ignorant to claim that no player today would start on the 1969 team.
Generations improve upon one another and both make mistakes along the way. Traditions should build and improve.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 6:35 PM
Everything in your generation has a time and measurement,that is what they train for... Good numbers. Witness the NFL combine, where we see great numbers from players but never hear from them in the NFL. But the original question is Oran'69 vs "19, all posters have taken '69. We win!!
-- Posted by Outfield on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 7:10 PM
It doesn’t matter if the 69 team was witnessed. Quit hanging on to your era. We hear this all the time. Old timers thinking their day was better. It’s just not the case in any situation. People are just bigger, stronger and more atheletic now. There’s so many reasons. Nutrition, Weight training, just evolution of people. Let it go.
-- Posted by Indian42 on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 7:55 PM
No way to compare era’s because of what Indian42 said. Rules changes should be included in that. With that said, a star in one era would be a star in any era if given the same advantages (weight training, nutrition, supplements, rules, etc.). I have no idea of the two Oran teams being compared.
-- Posted by ToeTheLine on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 9:21 PM
Indian 42 you have used the same very tired and overused reasoning that more cowshit has tried. At least he know has 1 person who agrees with him on this blog.In this situation of 2 very good basketball teams,myself and 5 other bloggers who saw both teams play say'69 and you and more cowshit just won't accept the fact! You know nothing about the old era other than your stubborn attitude that it was no good!!
-- Posted by Outfield on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 9:38 PM
Toe the line. You make my point for me. They didn’t have the advantages in that era like now. There’s just to much information out there now on sport specific training, nutrition, etc..way more time now spent in sports. Most kids in 69 for example were probably working a job in off season to help there families etc... kids do this **** year round now.
We are making these tired comments now ‘devil74’because that’s the only argument we need. As long as the point is correct then of course we’ll use it over and over. We’re not being stubborn. It just a fact that people are way better athletes now. It’s measurable facts.
-- Posted by Indian42 on Sat, Mar 16, 2019, at 10:11 PM
You people need to know that some high school players do read these posts. So think about the effects your posts are making. Not fair to either team. So let it go.
-- Posted by basketball fanatic on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 12:18 AM
A player from ‘69 wouldn’t play today unless he was a superstar. To say otherwise is the ignorant talk of has-beens who never moved on.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 12:24 AM
Athletes in the "old era" were probably fueled by a baloney sandwich, today we got mommy blowing $100 a week at GNC trying to create an athlete, when in fact her athlete is probably depositing that investment in local toilets! Next time you watch an Oran game, pick out an older looking fan and simply ask, "would Fred Johnson have started on the 2019 team"? Today's athletes can almost always find a college somewhere to continue playing if they choose to and walk on or receive partial aid. Old era had to be recruited and wanted by someone to continue playing. Plus many had to go to work or war. Oldies had a much greater desire and motivation to play college ball!
-- Posted by Outfield on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 9:36 AM
I watched Fred Johnson play, he could play for any team in the area today. No question!
-- Posted by Chris Trimmer on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 9:47 AM
Rambling about baloney sandwiches now, are we?
Some might wish to return to the days of 15” verticals, but I’m glad the game and athletes have progressed. I’m glad we have an all volunteer military instead of a draft so that wartime service is a choice; that we understand how nutrition impacts performance so that we can empower student-athletes with the knowledge to care for themselves and their bodies;, and that we have expanded opportunities to attend college and trade schools so that more students can further their education.
The ‘69 Jets wouldn’t win a Super Bowl today, the ‘69 OSU team wouldn’t win an NCAAF National Championship today, and the ‘69 Canadians wouldn’t win a Stanley Cup today.
The ‘69 Oran basketball team would take this year’s starters and would be a better team.Fred would be the only one from that team not watching from the stands.Like I said, there’s a lot more Kurt Rambus-type players than Magic Johnsons.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 1:13 PM
If the ‘69 version of the Jets, OSU and Canadians all had the advantages of today (nutrition, weights, supplements, film, scouting reports, rules, additives to our food, etc.), they may not be champs, but would be competitive. If, if, if, all things would be equal. Since there’s no way of doing this, the argument is null and void.
-- Posted by ToeTheLine on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 1:58 PM
The discussion was framed as to whether anyone on the current team would be good enough to start on the ‘69 team. As you point out, athletes today have superior advantages, and are bigger, stronger, and faster.
I doubt there’s many at Webb City or Valle who were part of earlier football success who are oblivious to the simple facts of athletic progression.Most who’ve been part of building a successful tradition are happy when the tradition is built upon.
The four minute mile was a big deal 60 years ago and now it’s common. A 100 mile per hr pitch was a big deal 40 years ago, but now a couple dozen guys throw that fast each year.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 2:28 PM
I think Oran has used its available pool of athletes very well over the years and their best players from yesteryear possessed much the same attributes as the current crop. I just see not so much difference. Players like joe Shoemaker and Fred Johnson help make any team perform better.If you really want an answer then just ask Gene Bess. He attends lots of high school games and has decades of observation. I don’t know for certain but I would hazard a guess he wouldn’t rate his 1979 crop of national champion players below the teams he has had the last few years. Staying close to Oran how about the 80’s Scott Central teams compared to the ones of the last few years? Back up a little more. Could Otto Jr.’s teams beat Marcus Timmons’s or Otto Sr’s teams? I’d say it would be quite a contest. Just ask Ronnie Cookson. The point being the overall population changes in SE Mo has led to a decrease in the athletic pool that has led to less and less players available to develop good teams around. There is not enough nutrition or training or year round devotion to make up for that. Just ask the many outlying schools that can barely field s team now.
-- Posted by Ernie D on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 3:08 PM
Another thing to consider is the officiating. Could players from 15+ years ago play with the way some refs call little tick-tacky calls and could players today handle the more physical play from years ago?
-- Posted by mnh1232003 on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 4:21 PM
The average NBA player:
1970 - 77.01” and 199.4
2015 - 78.93” and 216.1
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 4:43 PM
Nice stat. Aren’t Curry and Harden about 6’3? Of course they might not score as much today if they were fouled like Kevin mchale fouled the great Kurt Rambis during the playoffs
-- Posted by Ernie D on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 5:09 PM
There are always anomalies and I’m sure you’re aware that size is often driven by position. The stat does show that players are bigger. Stats also show they’re faster and jump higher.
You might consider the evolving isolation post play as a reason why average yesteryear players might struggle today.
Rambis and his glasses filled their role during their time, but he’d be a fan today.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 5:47 PM
This thread spiraled out of control quickly lol
-- Posted by TimeHop96 on Sun, Mar 17, 2019, at 6:23 PM
College and pro athletes are bigger and faster these days, thanks to intense year-around workouts and better nutrition. High school, less so.
There hasn't been a new MSHSAA "speed" record set in track and field for 12 years, unless those online records are incomplete -- or my source is inaccurate. Some were set in the 80s.
Going by standardized tests and the military's struggle to find qualified individuals, young people today are also much fatter -- maybe that's what you mean by "bigger" -- and not nearly as smart.
The Missouri state high jump record was set 37 years ago. The Missouri State 100-meter dash record was set 12 years ago. Before that the previous record was set in 1987.
Wow, those guys were pretty fast. How well do you think they'd compete today?
Generalities are useless when comparing generations. I don't think today's kids are really dumb. I'm sure they'd be thrilled to hear that.
A guy named David Thompson had the highest verticle leap ever measured by an NBA player and he graduated from college more than 40 years ago. What about Barry Sanders? He was playing high school football 35 years ago. Could he compete today? Or, the Cowboys' WR Bob Hayes? Who today is faster than that dude?
Fred Towns, who played against Fred Johnson in 1969 had a 44" verticle leap, measured when he played at Murray State. Dennis Snelling, who played on the basketball team with Towns, ran the 100-yard dash in 9.6s when he ran in meets the following spring. 15" verticle leap? Slow? Huh? Did you guys have the opportunity to watch Scott Central's 1980s teams, now almost 40 years ago?
Fred Johnson was great and actually was a friend when I lived in SE Missouri in the 1990s. He'd tell you he wasn't a one-man team, not even close. Now, I also would never say that none of the current-day Eagles would play or start for the '69 team -- that would be a nasty, mean-spirited thing to say about a really fine team of high school athletes.
-- Posted by oldsportseditor on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 6:24 AM
Oldsportseditor, yeah I remember seeing that SCC 1980 team several times. The best team I ever saw. Watch them beat Slater with Joe kline, I'm not sure if I spelled that right right not? I do disagree with you on one thing I do believe players are stronger now because when I went to school back in the late 70s I kid 6'3" done well to even touch the rim. Now a days a kids 5'9" can dunk it.
-- Posted by The deltan on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 6:53 AM
Most people who understand track and field know the difference between hand timed records and FATS. The 100 meter world record is 9.58, so no one at M State ran a true 9.6 (you likely meant a 10.6 on a hand timer).
A generation is considered a 25 year span, so I would consider records that are 12 years old as new records, but that’s subjective. Several new speed records were set during this indooor season. None of these are from my generation because athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster.
As of 2015 (so there’s probably some newer records), the top five Missouri State High School 100 meter times were run in 2008. The top five 400 meter times were run between 2004-14. The top 60 meter times were run this year, so we’ll likely see a new 100 meter mark.
The high jump record was set in 2009.
You might want to check your vertical leap stat. Thompson is ranked 10th or lower on most lists, and lower when considering the standing versus step and running tests.
ASVAB score averages have steadily risen with a few dips since the standardized testing was revamped in 1976. The number of recruits with high school diplomas and college degrees has also increased since 1976.
As was stated earlier, superstar athletes of yesteryear could compete today.
Your last paragraph is spot on.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 7:30 AM
Does no one from the SEMissourian monitor these forums? This whole thread is incredibly off-topic and tedious.
-- Posted by Fish on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:53 AM
It’s really been an inresting discussion for me as I enjoyed learning some history and considering the different perspectives whether agreed with or not.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:35 AM
Toe,
An inside source tells me that Shoemaker will be principal and coach next year.
-- Posted by larry doby 14 on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 10:25 AM
Thanks, Larry.
-- Posted by ToeTheLine on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 11:43 AM
I agree with Fish - this thread has been completely derailed from initial subject. I return hoping to read some more “way too early” predictions/perspectives, and just find more ranting and rambling about which generation is better. I will be the last to discourage activity on this forum, as the lack of new threads/posts since $ came into play has been disappointing. However, I will encourage those engaged in clearly off-topic debates to open a new thread. Just a courteous thing to do.
I’m guilty of jumping into off-topic discussion in the past myself...I get it.
I HAVE really enjoyed some of the bits and pieces of data/history that has been shared here. Just not the bravado and posturing.
-- Posted by surfgurl_09 on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 12:03 PM
Sorry to aid in getting this off-topic. I thought it was a good discussion. A few things:
I don't like generalizations about any athletes, minimalizing their accomplishments to make a point.
I do believe a guy like Sam Huff or Y.A. Tittle would be just as successful today because they would have the advantage of training, nutrition, etc. However, I never actually saw either of those guys in live action.
Athletes are (some level of) bigger and stronger today, but the difference is incremental, isn't it? I don't buy that athletes in SE Missouri are that much better today than they ever were. I watched the Cape Central-Sikeston game in the SEMO Tournament last December and I wasn't as dazzled as I was by the Scott Central Braves in the 80s, but I'm old. Maybe I misremember.
David Thompson and Dennis Johnson had measured vertical leaps of 48 inches on the only list I've ever seen. If there is a database on this measurement I've never been aware of it.
Dennis Snelling ran his 9.6 in a local meet and it was Sikeston's record for years. It was hand-timed and I am sure, without actually cheating, I could make that a 10.0 with the stopwatch in my hand. I'm pretty sure those MSHSAA records don't go back past the early 80s. They weren't being tracked that far back.
I'm not sure about 100 mph fastballs in the 70s. Not aware that pitches were accurately measured before the late 90s, early 2000s, though maybe. It occurs to me that Major League Baseball hasn't juiced the baseballs, but maybe has tuned up the radar machines? It was a big deal when Aroldis Chapman threw the first measured pitch at 100 mph in a game, but I don't know how long ago that was.
I did a story about 5 years ago about military recruiters who couldn't meet goals because candidates were unqualified physically and mentally. That SAT scores for college candidates are way lower compared to 25 years ago is true -- so is the fact that many more high school juniors take that test and the ACT, watering down the scores. Youth obesity is through the roof compared to 25 years ago though I don't have the numbers to back that up.
Finally, if I postured or evidenced any bravado I do apologize to those on this forum. It was not my intention. I offered an alternative view and it wasn't intended as a correction, though it may have sounded so.
-- Posted by oldsportseditor on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 5:24 PM
I agree that superstars could still be successful today. The average guy like a Rambis probably isn’t playing.
The fastest 100 hand held time in Missouri that I could find was a 10.3 held by T. Scott. The list goes back to 1973 and maybe farther, but I stopped looking.
The first verified 100 m.p.h. pitch was in 1974.I think there were more than 30 last year.
Military enlistment standards rose in 2011 as the drawdown began. This included physical, mental, and background requirements.
The ACT is a score based against others who tested. As an example of the slight variation in percentile for a specific score, a score of 31 was the 96th percentile in 2014 but the 97th percentile in 2013.
The SAT data is a can of worms, but I’ll say simply that historical data shows scores have remained consistent for Caucasians and increased for Asian-Americans.
Youth obesity is an issue, but it’s not much of an issue - more a quota excuse - since about 1% of the population enlists. But, you are correct because about 70% of military aged males don’t meet the new standards. Neither would Stormin’ Norman.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 7:12 PM
I don’t think anyone took your comments as that old editor.
There is one person that does claim to know everything about every topic ever created, though. He is known by the Latin name Bos Taurus tintinabulum.
You have read his posts and he is the end all to every topic. I guess that’s ok, but tiresome.
The only way to shut him up is by providing documented facts. When you do that he is strangely silent.
Or ask him when was the last time a Jackson team made the final four in one of the major sports.
-- Posted by Slim shady on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 7:31 PM
And the SCC teams were certainly fun to watch. They were teams of well coached and exceptional athletes. Makes me wonder if they dug another well and started drinking different water.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 7:37 PM
One more thing I’d forgotten was a National Geographic report quoting someone who’d compared an all things equal race between Usain Bolt and Jesse Owens. Bolt won this hypothetical race, but by something like two-tenths or maybe less.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:01 PM
Oldsportseditor no apology needed. My comment about posturing and bravado wasn’t intended for you at all. I’m sure you could guess who that was aimed at. And as far and long as this thread has gone off topic, no worries at this point!
Nothing but respect from me for the years you have around the game.
-- Posted by surfgurl_09 on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:30 PM
Found it:
According to sports science writer David Epstein, if Bolt and Owens raced together, Owens would still have had 14 feet to go after Bolt crossed the finish line in the 2013 World Championships, with a time of 9.77 (though, to be fair, Bolt ran the event even faster than that in the 2012 Olympics).
-- Posted by Run the Race on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:35 PM
Clifford Wicks ran a hand timed 9.9 100yd dash for poplar bluff in the early 70’s. Later played defensive end for SEMO football. The time is worthy of attention even if a tenth off
-- Posted by Ernie D on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:05 PM
Mr. Wicks did indeed run the 100 yard dash and ran it fast in his day. To run an equivalent 100 meter race that’s run today, he’d need to run 109.4 yards. That equates to about a 10.95 hand timed and probably an 11.15 FATS in the 100 meters which is still fast. That would rank him about 6th or 7th in the last 6-7 years worth of 100 meter runners at Bluff.
Disclaimer on my mathematical calculations.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:32 PM
The rule says you must round up hand timed to the slowest tenth, so that means it was a 10.0. Then the rule states MT + 0.24 = FATS. So the 100 yard dash time was 10.24 which is a top end 11.09 to a low of 11.24 in the 100 meter race today.
-- Posted by Run the Race on Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:54 PM
My apologies to the 2019 Oran team, you are a great young team. Hoping for many more trips to the state tournament! Go Eagles!!!
-- Posted by Outfield on Tue, Mar 19, 2019, at 3:41 AM
Jesus, i guess i started this getting out of control. I did say last 45 years, didnt i? I took in account for 1969.
-- Posted by vman on Tue, Mar 19, 2019, at 9:16 AM
The better question would be: Would a 2019 MSHSAA certified basketball official have the guts to call a 10 second violation on a free throw to cost Oran the state title?
-- Posted by 6+4+3=2 on Wed, Mar 20, 2019, at 12:23 PM
6+4+3=2, rules are rules,,,lol
-- Posted by The deltan on Wed, Mar 20, 2019, at 1:15 PM
6+4+3=2 —- good question. I’d like to think someone would, but have some serious doubts. Btw, still digging your photo. Missed seeing it. Where have you been?
-- Posted by ToeTheLine on Wed, Mar 20, 2019, at 1:29 PM
The best question would be why did a 2019 MSHSAA official decide not to call a tripping foul on greenwood at half court and also letting Oran player get mugged with a second or so left on the clock. Right in front of us. He got fouled standing there, fouled on the shot and MUGGED coming down from the shot. Bloodied nose and busted mouth. Official said after the buzzer. Maybe so but was being fouled before the shot as well. Can't wait to buy the DVD of that game. Hope it shows the whole story.
-- Posted by basketball fanatic on Wed, Mar 20, 2019, at 6:53 PM
Unfortunately, too many officials have the attitude of “let the kids decide the game.” But if there’s a foul and it’s not called, hasn’t the referee decided the game? If it’s a foul in the first minute then it’s also a foul in the last one.
-- Posted by ToeTheLine on Thu, Mar 21, 2019, at 9:40 AM
ToeTheLine, exactly. You took the words right out of my mouth. I've said the same words many times. Thank you.
-- Posted by basketball fanatic on Thu, Mar 21, 2019, at 12:42 PM
I bet if you scream MUGGED at the DVD when you watch it, it will change the outcome.
Toe: I've been just sitting back waiting for a good thread to interject in.
Officiating a game of basketball is the hardest thing to do in officiating sports. And yelling and complaining about officials is about like a dog barking at and chasing a car, just a lot of activity and noise that has zero bearing on anything
-- Posted by 6+4+3=2 on Fri, Mar 22, 2019, at 3:18 PM
I know it is what it is and nothing will change the outcome now. I just want the DVD to enjoy the game again and to determine if calls were not made that should have been. Hope the DVD shows clearly the no calls in question. By the way one person read the referee's mothed words to the other ref on the tripping incident. According to this person he mouthed incidental. If it makes a difference in the game or alters the game it should be called a foul. As I said it is what it is, no redos. I just want to see it over for my own satisfaction.
-- Posted by basketball fanatic on Fri, Mar 22, 2019, at 3:40 PM
6-4-3=2
I agree with you that officiating basketball is probably the toughest sport to call. I did it for a few years awhile back. I tried my best to call the 32nd minute like I called the first minute and each one in between. I received some criticism from fellow referees for making “a call like that in the final seconds. Let that go.” My response was “would you have called that a foul with 3:45 left in the 2nd quarter?” Almost invariably, the answer was “ it wasn’t in the 2Q. It was the last minute of the 4th.” My question was never answered.
-- Posted by ToeTheLine on Fri, Mar 22, 2019, at 3:49 PM
Fanatic, wasn't there so I can't comment on what happened. But I did read where a few journalists covering the game didn't view it as a bad missed call, but who knows judgement is affected by perspective
Toe- Not saying it's right but I think officials try to call more early in the games to try and set a tone and then try as hard as they can to let the game play itself out late and only call what has to be called. Not saying it's right, but as a player, coach and official myself that's how I always wanted it to be
-- Posted by 6+4+3=2 on Fri, Mar 22, 2019, at 4:24 PM
6-4-3=2,
I have done all three myself (player, ref & coach). Usually depends on which side of call/non-call you’re on whether your philosophy is call tight early and then loosen up vs. call each minute the same (especially when you’re playing or coaching). Lol. That’s human nature.
-- Posted by ToeTheLine on Fri, Mar 22, 2019, at 4:41 PM
Menu
With high school basketball officially over with, who will be the top teams next year? I really only watched Sikeston play this year and I don't see them being as strong next year but what about the other teams like Oran, Cape and Charleston? Do they lose a lot to graduation or do they have the JV players to replace the seniors?
Replies (80)