Semoball

High School Football Forum: Valle vs. areas top teams debate

Posted by theprof on Wed, Sep 21, 2016, at 8:50 PM:

The debate as to whether Valle should be claimed as the top team compared to the areas other top teams has been renewed again in other posts so I did some research. Looked up 2004 to 2015 REGULAR season games results from the last 12 years. Valle has one regular season victory and six losses to maxprep Missouri top 100 teams. Valle's lone quality victory came over 80th ranked and Class 1 Westran in 2014. a 1-6 record is not so great against SEMO North type teams. Valle was also 11-10 against teams ranked 100 to 199 and also had losses to 271,205,206,and 235. Valle has not won any game over teams the strength of a Poplar Bluff, Cape, Jackson, or even a 1-4 Vianny the past 12 years, and until they do there will always be questions on how they stack up. Valle will get the opportunity to see how they stack up to top teams when they play class 2 Lamar. A long run of state championships verify that Valle is the undisputed top "class 1" team in the state. Please Note, I will be at the Valle-Lamar game pulling for the East side.

Replies (32)

  • Some prefer the "eye test". Do any remember the 2014 state championships where the class 1 and class 5 games were played back to back. Valle beat Westran 49-25 for the 2nd time that season and Battle beat Nixa 25-22 for the class 5 championship. It soon became clearly obvious the size and speed differences in the two games. Examples are the speed the back would hit the hole, or the speed of Nixa's middle linebacker. Battle's QB had to throw a harder ball to thread the ball between the defensive backs whereas Valle could lob it up an open receiver. Battle was a team Jackson beat 62-34 earlier in the year and before Jackson lost their top two running backs to injuries. How many believe that the 2014 Valle team could beat the 2014 Battle team as Jackson did? Maybe these games are archived somewhere.

    -- Posted by theprof on Wed, Sep 21, 2016, at 9:10 PM
  • not me. there have been a few times in the past where Valle could have legitimately contended for class 2 and 3. But they would not have beaten Lamar the past 5 years and recently between Maryville and Burroughs they would not have beaten them. much less class 5 contenders. Valle is the gold standard in class 1. leave them to it.

    -- Posted by Kzar on Wed, Sep 21, 2016, at 9:27 PM
  • They need to get out of Class 1.

    -- Posted by Boogin77 on Wed, Sep 21, 2016, at 9:32 PM
  • Anybody that lives outside of a ten mile radius from Valley knows they cant compete with good large schools, but I guess the locals reason that a fifty something winstreak vs mainly small school weak foes means theyd hang with Jackson and Cape and Vianney and Lamar and CBC, etc, etc. Delusional existence is one of many ways to go thru life i reckon...

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Wed, Sep 21, 2016, at 10:59 PM
  • Ciri,

    You do realize it's Valle, not Valley right? Figured you were aiming at funny, cuz I see you do it a lot, figured Id look our for you on the off chance you didn't know...

    -- Posted by Boogin77 on Wed, Sep 21, 2016, at 11:20 PM
  • Thank you for doing the hard work theprof!!!!

    Not just team speed difference, but team size is a huge difference too.

    -- Posted by JHSIndian23 on Wed, Sep 21, 2016, at 11:59 PM
  • Oh and those 2 hurt running backs were also pretty important parts of the defense if I remember correctly (1 is my nephew so).

    -- Posted by JHSIndian23 on Thu, Sep 22, 2016, at 12:02 AM
  • Just being funny Boogy but thanx for the help!!

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Thu, Sep 22, 2016, at 10:12 AM
  • The year Ste. Gen won the class 3 state championship...their only loss that year was to Valle.

    -- Posted by easy2 on Thu, Sep 22, 2016, at 11:53 AM
  • There's been years where Valle would have given Cape,Jax,Sikeston and the likes all they wanted. We're not talking Valle winning state championships in classes, if we're just talking area teams they could put an L on some.

    -- Posted by Bill Shakespeare on Thu, Sep 22, 2016, at 1:16 PM
  • the best team ever? . . .

    Before the MSHSAA football playoffs began in 1968, a team from Valle Catholic High

    School in Ste. Genevieve put together one of the most impressive seasons ever achieved

    by an American prep squad.

    Aside from going undefeated in 1966, the Warriors did not allow a single point, posting 10

    shutouts in as many efforts, while accumulating 535 points. Both the team’s scoring average

    per game (53.5) and points allowed per game (0.0) are Missouri records.

    Here is a game-by-game summary of Valle’s 1966 dream season (including three straight

    road victories to close out the year) and the team’s season stats:

    St. Vincent ...........................W 39-0 at St. Pius X (Festus) ..........W 47-0

    Rosary .................................W 53-0 Kinloch (homecoming).........W 79-0

    Wellston...............................W 52-0 at Perryville..........................W 47-0

    at Priory ...............................W 46-0 at Potosi .............................W 53-0

    Chester(Ill.)..........................W 48-0 at Fredericktown..................W 71-0

    Valle Season Statistics Opp.

    221 First Downs 47

    479-3037 Rushes-Yards 280-431

    6.3 Yards Per Carry 1.5

    60-974 Comp.-Yards 31-190

    22-395 Inerceptions-Yards 3-39

    598 Plays 416

    4011 Yards Total Offense 621

    535 Points Scored 0

    53.5 Points Per Game 0.0

    Just maybe they could have beat a few big schools.

    -- Posted by Bearcat Fan on Thu, Sep 22, 2016, at 4:25 PM
  • No one cares what they did in 1968 though

    -- Posted by Ohweeohahaha on Thu, Sep 22, 2016, at 7:18 PM
  • That might be true, but they are even better today.

    -- Posted by Bearcat Fan on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 6:40 AM
  • Valle vs. Da Bears?

    Valle vs. God and the Angels?

    Always pick Valle

    -- Posted by Go.Hard.Cuh on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 8:16 AM
  • Boo hoo boo hoo! Valle has too many advantages it's just not fair. Boo hoo boo hoo!!

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 8:47 AM
  • With Cutler, Valle or anyone else in the state could beat Da Bears (joking)

    God and the Angels are on Valles team.....

    Don't always pick Valle, all good things come to an end.

    Quit b$%#@ing and move on.

    -- Posted by BBUBET on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 10:21 AM
  • Heshootshe, I couldn't figure out what advantages Valle has that you are sobbing about as there were no comments made in this thread about Valle's advantages. What are Valle's advantages you are referring to?

    -- Posted by theprof on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 12:16 PM
  • Easy2, you are right, that was Ste.Gens only loss that year and probably Valle's toughest game in last 20 years. Sorry, but I could only go back 12 years, as far as max preps goes. That game was before the 2004 season. Valle has had many good seasons in the past "for a class 1 school", but I don't see any correlation, to some, that Valle is the areas top team the past few seasons.

    -- Posted by theprof on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 12:26 PM
  • Any idea what school Kinloch was? Never heard of it.

    -- Posted by Tim Riggins on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 12:28 PM
  • Kinloch HS was a segregated HS located in St. Louis County. It operated from 1936-1976. It's segregated sister school was Berkeley HS.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinloch_High_School

    -- Posted by gianthook on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 12:50 PM
  • BearcatFan, your posts content would make a good case for the other areas top teams, such as the SEMO North teams as the schedule is full of the smaller schools. This is a good schedule for a class 1 program, but not the areas other top teams of 1960's. No Sikeston, Poplar Bluff, Jackson, Dexter, Cape, Charleston, Malden or Ste.Gen even. Valle being undefeated or unscored upon in 1968 has about as much to do with this topic as the 1942 Cape Central team, the 1935 10-0 Jackson team, or the 1911 7-0 Sikeston team, which all were undefeated and not scored upon. Valle has had many good seasons for a smaller class size school but 1-6 against good teams, 11-10 against average teams the past 12 years is not that all impressive to most. That is only playing 2.33 games per season against good or average teams. This year, Valle prepares 10 months to beat Ste. Gen, and another month to prepare for Lamar, then throw in a couple of average teams and the class 1 playoffs, and that's it.

    -- Posted by theprof on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 12:50 PM
  • Kinlock is a town of about 450 citizens that is at the southeast end of two runways at Lambert airport. Ferguson is on the east and Cool Valley is to their south. Berkeley is to their north.

    -- Posted by theprof on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 12:57 PM
  • Back in the late 60s I believe Valle used to beat them also. Prof my comments earlier were sarcastic sorry for the misunderstanding

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 1:28 PM
  • heshootshescores, No worries.

    -- Posted by theprof on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 2:27 PM
  • *

    You might want to update your records regarding the state scoring records....

    https://www.mshsaa.org/resources/pdf/FBTmSeason_122014.pdf

    -- Posted by LHSTiger81 on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 2:31 PM
  • Put it to rest and start playing other powerhouse teams. Is there a strength of schedule statistic for HS teams? No doubt Valle is an incredible team, unfortunately they are a private school playing a easy schedule. The best HS basketball teams in the country are private class A or 1 teams. They play the other best teams...Your only the best if you beat the best.

    -- Posted by F.O.P on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 2:49 PM
  • Who cares, ITS FRIDAY BABY! Good luck to all and let's hope our teams are kept safe.

    -- Posted by F.O.P on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 2:52 PM
  • According to Calpreps:

    Jackson 42 - Valle 28

    Poplar Bluff 38 - Valle 34

    Park Hills 33 - Valle 31

    Valle 31 - Sikeston 26

    Valle 35 - Cape 34

    Valle 41 - Farmington 31

    Valle 48 - Dexter 10

    Valle 40 - Caruthersville 31

    Valle 35 - Malden 31

    -- Posted by Boogin77 on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 5:57 PM
  • Boogin77...I would agree with most of the scores except Park Hills...Valle I believe would be the favorite.

    -- Posted by stlcardsfan on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 10:38 PM
  • I like Valle, but they won't even come close, not even sort of close to beating Lamar. I've seen Lamar play in person, when you see the depth, size, and discipline of that team you'll know what I'm talking about. Kids have to battle for spots on the scout team, nonetheless starters. Lamar is not the best team in the state, but they are the best in class one and until someone proves otherwise class two as well.

    -- Posted by mobrigade on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 11:19 PM
  • Best Valle game I've ever seen was October 19th, 1990.

    Valle - 14

    Chaffee - 6

    -- Posted by Vanderbilt on Fri, Sep 23, 2016, at 11:54 PM
  • If Valle was in the Big 8 or SCA or COC small and so on how would they do every Fri night? The physical pounding that takes place would it take a toll? Valle is a great program but their schedule really helps its nice to see them hook up with Lamar I'm really looking forward to seeing it.

    -- Posted by 4REAL on Sun, Sep 25, 2016, at 11:22 AM

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