Have any of the larger schools in the bootheel, who now play their softball season in the fall, considering switching their season to spring?
Depends on your definition of the Bootheel.
If by Bootheel you mean Dunklin/Pemiscot/New Madrid counties, then no. Kennett is the largest school in the "Bootheel" (those three counties) and they've played spring since it first began. I think Portageville was the only other "larger" school to switch from fall to spring at the end of the last school year.
If by Bootheel you mean Southeast Missouri/Semoball schools/Parkland/Lead Belt, none of the bigger ones have switched to spring this season. Can't speak to whether or not any of them are "considering," which was the basis of your question, but it looks like all the big schools in the area (Cape Central, Jackson, Notre Dame, Perryville, Sikeston, Poplar Bluff, Farmington) are sticking with fall.
I think the bigger schools will stick with fall since their numbers to field a team won't nearly be as impacted as they are in smaller schools when volleyball season is going on. More girls to choose from who choose to play softball over volleyball during the fall. If you look at it, basically the only small schools in the area who are still competing during the fall (Naylor, Neelyville, Chaffee, Van Buren) are schools that do not have volleyball. If any other bigger schools do switch from fall to spring for the next school year, I'd say Saxony Lutheran and Twin Rivers are probably the most likely.
sorry I was vague, I meant the schools like Cape, Jackson, Sikeston, PB etc..
In the lead belt MAAA, I know for a fact that Ste Gen is going to switch to spring starting the 17-18 school year.
I've also heard the Park Hills Central is strongly considering it and prety much a done deal, along with Fredericktown and Potosi..
Not sure about NC and Farmington. But if 2 or more schools switch, that would leave no conference for them to play in thus be forced to move to pring.
One interesting fact, of the MAAA teams considering moving, none have girls soccer teams..
Thanks for your insight Legend..
Per KFMO Sports, all the schools in the Parkland have switched over to spring softball now with the exception of Farmington, Fredericktown, and North County which, as waterbottle21 correctly points out, are the only schools in that area that have girls soccer during the spring season. This means that Park Hills Central, Potosi, and Ste. Genevieve are now joining the slate of teams that will be competing for a district title during the spring season.
Any softball fanatics out there have any insight into what's going to become of fall softball now that so many teams are switching over to spring? Could fall softball now just be a thing for the (mostly) bigger schools whereas spring softball is for the (mostly) smaller schools? Seems like softball is always going to have to draw from other sports regardless of the season (volleyball during the fall, soccer during the spring).
Those switching, like PHC, just want an easier path to hopefully get to a state championship. Getting away from the competition.
Park hills will beat every time in spring by 10 plus runs. It's a shame. I don't see what the big schools get out of beating everyone by 10-20+ runs.
Spring Softball is a joke. Compete in the fall when everyone else does or your state title means nothing. Come on MSHSAA open your eyes. One sport played twice a year with two different state champions? If we are doing to do that, then lets have a spring football season.
Another 10 years there will be more teams in the spring than fall. Softball should be in the spring with baseball it's a shame years ago the big fall push happened.
Curious as to why it's a shame.
128 is the magic number for MSHSAA. Once that number of teams is reached in the spring--there will be two classes. 128 will give them enough schools for 16 districts in two classes. Each district would have four teams.
When too many, and some of the better teams, switch to spring ball it won't be so easy to win any more so the reason for doing it will be gone. Fall weather is generally better for getting the games in. Too much rain and cold in the spring.
From what I hear, North County will not be moving to spring they will join a northern conference with Desoto, Hillsboro, Festus, Windsor, etc... I can't speak to Farmington or Fredricktown - maybe they will move to join a conference south of them?
I believe larger schools WITHOUT soccer are moving to spring because they think it will be an easier path to state, you will see the large schools WITH soccer stay put in Fall. Seems really silly to me to have 2 different seasons for the same sport.
Spring softball is very good. It's enjoyable to be able to watch both softball and baseball at schools with their facilities side by side.
With districts a week away who are some of the best teams out there? Malden? Scott City?
Kennett will be in the hunt. They have some excellent players and are well coached.
Oran is 16-0. Beat Kennett and Dexter, so playing the larger schools. I have not seen them play, but it looks like they must have a solid team with good pitching. Anyone see them and can comment on their success this Spring?
Oran is solid top to bottom offensively and play solid defense with good pitching. It's just about that simple.
If you take a look at East Prairie's record it becomes clear spring softball is significantly weaker. In the fall EP was 2-16, only scoring more than 5 runs twice. Same team now in the spring is 7-3 having scored less than 3 runs only three times. Not really impressed with any spring teams. Oran's record is not impressive given the competition they have faced is very weak. Not that Oran is bad, they are just playing a lot of weak local teams. Almost all of the better fall teams play larger St. Louis area teams. Possibly enough teams will eventually move to spring, but right now the competition just isn't there.
Oran would be competitive in fall probably about 500 record, they can at least play good softball which u can say about maybe 4 teams in spring. whats the deal with most teams scheduling maybe 10 to 12 games for whole season? if going to play then play some games. Plus just look at issues with weather and all the cancellations thats why they moved to fall if not mistaken around 1980. But of coarse Dustin will always say spring is he best time, yea wet and cold sounds great. Got to give Oran credit just being able to keep their discipline up playing teams that they know have no chance. Oran is my beat to win it all this year.
Thanks for the information.
I wondering just how many people give a crap about Fall softball being stronger then Spring softball. Many of these schools that do not play Fall softball are usually fielding solid volleyball teams. How many of the good Fall softball schools have good volleyball? Not hardly any. Take Cpae Central, for instance, they absolutely stink at volleyball and routinely get whipped by much smaller schools.
I don't get the fall/spring difference. Girls can't hit the ball in April as good as they can in September? They can't catch the ball in April as good as they can in September? They can't pitch as good in April as they can in September? I'm thinking they probably can.
Oran has no seniors on the team, so all the players can return next year. Plus has 2 freshmen as starting pitchers.
But Kennett and Malden will be tough in state. Oran has to get past Scott city in districts.
You are correct. All the teams you mention will be tough.
Relatively tough, not real tough. Holycowman, I did give Oran credit, but .500 in the fall may be a bit generous. Ozzyandharriet, Cape doesn't exactly field an exceptional softball team either. This year they were up a bit, but they are not one of the more dominant teams in the fall. And not a volleyball fan so will not comment on that.
Come on .500 for Oran in the Fall? I have a hard time believing that they would lose half their games in the Fall.
Never did when they played in the fall.
Mr. Baseball, you may be right. If they played a schedule similar to the one now, heavy on weak local opponents, then sure .500 would be realistic. However if they approached it like most solid smaller school teams like Chaffee and Kelly, and played a schedule filled with stronger area teams and St. Louis teams then .500 would be a stretch in my opinion. Its not to totally dismiss Oran, I am sure they could make games competitive in the fall, and perhaps pull a few close wins. I am just a little hesitant to say .500 is a given. Especially since their last season in the fall they went 5-15.
Do you know when their last fall season was? I am just curious, as depending on how long ago would make a difference with what players went 5-15. I don't disagree that they would play a lot tougher competition with Chaffee, Kelly and St. Louis Schools.
I know that Oran plays volleyball in the Fall, and does not have a soccer team for the Spring. I would assume that is why they switched to Spring? Some of the best athletes at smaller schools play almost all sports, as many know.
You can look at the OFC conference which has a mix of fall and spring and see the teams were very even this year. Even Van Buren who won state didn't blow anyone away. Fall has the bigger schools primarily that's it. Of course they are going to be better than smaller schools most of the time. Oran is a great team and would have the same or almost identical in the fall or the spring.
Here is the run down if these teams played fall ball, Kennett would be class 3
Malden class 2
Scott city class 2
Dexter class 4
Oran class 1
Kelly is class 2 in fall
Chaffee is class 1 in fall
So Oran would be in class 1 state tournament in the fall. Since they play spring they do play bigger schools on their schedule that should be playing fall.
By playing it the spring it allows the girls to play volleyball in the fall and softball in the spring.
I am not sure what your point is exactly sonnyboy8. If you are inferring that they would win class 1 districts I might disagree. Scott City would also be class 1 by the way. They would meet Chaffee, Scott City, and Van Buren in districts. Van Buren at 15-5 beat Chaffee at 12-12 in a close district game. Van Buren is currently 12-1 in spring with their only loss coming from an IL team. Of course that is assuming they would be in that district, and I would say that would be a safe assumption. It definitely is interesting once you look at records and teams that play both seasons. May be more to the story, but it appears pretty telling.
Scott City is Class 3 in boys baseball and you're saying they would be Class 1 in the Fall for softball? That doesn't make sense. I think they would be Class 2, as Kelly is in Class 2 in Fall Softball.
I think Oran beat Scott City in softball this Spring 10-0.
I am just saying, I think Oran would be a competitive Class 1 softball team in the Fall.
Just pointing out Oran would be in class 1 in fall or spring. Also Oran beat Naylor this spring, that also play's fall. Which Naylor beat Chaffee this past fall. Oran also beat Scott City 10-0 this spring. Oran beat Kennett 4-1 this spring.
Mr. Baseball, that would be my guess based on the school sizes. I may be wrong, but even at that Oran would have a tall hill to climb in the fall. Nothing in their record indicates they would be up to that task.
Sonnyboy8, Naylor is an anomaly of some sort. They went 12-11 in the fall, but have only 3 wins thus far. I say they are an anomaly because they are the only two season team I have looked at that has a significantly worse record in the spring. Almost all the others appear to dominate the spring. I would like to see Oran play Van Buren. Not sure why they haven't. For what it is worth I believe both Scott City and Kennett would struggle in the fall.
look at the map there is only 10 teams left in Southeast MO Class 1 and 2 in the fall the idea was smaller schools move to spring because of competing sports. Most of the fall teams left don't play volleyball so they had no reason to move to the spring. There are great teams in the spring across the state that would do well in the fall.
Well, maybe Oran will play Van Buren after districts. Van Buren is not very close to Oran; it's a pretty good drive. I am still not convinced that Fall Softball is really that much superior to Spring, except maybe for the bigger schools. I can see more of an advantage in Spring softball for the bigger schools, since they lump some larger schools together with smaller ones. DwinsC, you seem to dismiss that Oran beat Scott City, Kennett and a lot larger schools this Spring. Also, they are Class 1 whether Spring or Fall. They may lose some games if they played in the Fall, but I think they would be competition for any Class 1 or Class 2 team.
Oran was 6-16 in 2015 when they played in the fall. However the year before they played in a state quarterfinal game. What about Portageville. They went to the final four in the fall and have struggled in the spring? It's the players a team has on any given year. Sometimes the talent is there and sometimes it's not. The elite teams in the spring would be competitive in the fall because the talent is there. The reason spring ball gets such a bad wrap is that there are a lot more teams in the spring that are not very good. They would be just as bad in the fall.
Twin Rivers also plays in the fall and they are 3-8 this spring. It's all about talent.
Softball fan fam, reasons for their move is irrelevant, and no doubt there are good teams in the spring. My points are that Oran's record is not indicative of how good they really are, and that fall is still, even among class 1 and 2 teams, far more competitive. Records and history indicate such.
Mr. Baseball, yet Van Buren has played teams in this area both here and at there location in both fall and spring. So distance is not the issue. I think perhaps if Oran believed they had a dominant team they would have found a way to play them. Who knows perhaps next year they will. I don't dismiss their wins over Kennett and SC, I just don't believe those teams are really that good. Kelly and Chaffee fair pretty well in the fall playing better small school teams as well as larger local schools, and typically larger schools from the St. Louis area. Van Buren for instance foun an IL team to play which typically field better softball teams. If you don't think there is a significant difference between fall and spring so be it, however team records for those playing both tend to disagree.
mosoftballfan, true Oran had winning records in previous seasons, however they did not make it out of districts the previous 2 seasons before they moved to spring. Your Portageville example is flawed, as they took a major step back after Tiffany, one of the best pitchers in the state her last two seasons, graduated. Had they stayed in the fall they would not have faired well at all. Its nice to think that the talent is there, but again a 7-3 spring EP was 3-16 in the fall, same talent, a 15-5 Van Buren team in the fall is 12-1 now, losing only to an IL team. Perhaps Oran is a competitive team, but I still contend, if they played the same schedule as Chaffee and Kelly .500 would be a tough finish. And by the way Twin Rivers went 2-10 in the fall. So they are pretty bad all around.
The only reason people are taking about Oran is because of the Payne girl. Take her power and defense away and they are just a regular team.
DwinsC you made my point. If you have talent you can win in either spring or fall. Portageville with talent was a contender in the fall. Portageville without Tiffany is just another team whether it be spring or fall. All teams have up years and then down years. There's no question there are some very bad teams in the spring. But the three or four elite teams in the spring would be competitive in the fall. I'm not saying they would win a state title but they wouldn't be pushovers. The current Kennett team would be competitive with the current Kelly or Notre Dame teams. I'm not talking about the Notre Dame or Kelly teams from three or four years ago but the teams they fielded last fall.
I am not sure why you keep saying Chaffee and kelley, but. Chaffee almost won their districts with a girl who had not pitched in 2 years. All Chaffee has to due is move to spring so they can see what Oran has.
In 2 years Chaffee will lose 7 players, so their team will struggle in the fall due to players, Van Buren is losing their starting pitcher next year and that will be hard to replace. It is the players from year to year. Not what season you play. Also there are 2 schools from st.louis switching to spring next year.
Oh and one more thing DWinsC--according to MSHSAA website Oran had a record of 13 and 5 in 2013. They beat Naylor for the district championship won a sectional game against Dora before losing a state quarterfinal game against Walnut Grove which went 9 innings. They lost their whole starting indfield to graduation and fielded a 6 and 16 team the next year-2014. They then switched to spring which means they didn't play in the fall of 2015. Their first year in spring ball was 2016. So they did win a district title in their final two years in the fall.
How do we know that Oran has not tried to schedule a game with Van Buren? Maybe Van Buren is dodging Oran?
Second, one player, the Payne girl, can't do it all by herself. It takes a team effort to have a winning team. That is illogical talk.
Dismissing the Oran softball team reminds me of the Oran boys basketball team that was never ranked in the top 10 in the state in Class 2 for the whole year, but won the State Championship.
I am not saying Oran softball will even get out of districts, but they are a real contender, no matter how mediocre some people think they are.
Mr baseball are you saying the Payne girl is not carrying the team? She has the most power on the team best defense on the team. Teams plan against her not Oran. Oran has caught Scott city when their pitcher is hurt if she was heathly we wouldn't be talking about Oran. Plus state goes Thur Malden this year.
There are 3 girls on Oran that has more homeruns then Payne. Defense, pitching is keeping other teams from winning. Scott city only beat Oran by 2 runs last year in districts with Dirden pitching, also she did bat and k'd once this season against Oran. Oran is a solid team, we will see next week who will win districts
District 4 the only district that will be toss up, D 1 winner portageville, D 2 kennet, D 3 malden, they have very little challenge for the district title.
Payne can only play one position on defense. She can also be pitched around. Yes, I am saying that Payne is not carrying the team. She is only one person in the line-up and on the field. Also, as sonnyboy8 said, Payne is surpassed by three other teammates for home runs.
Sounds like Scott City may be the team that is relying on one player (Dirden). They lost to Oran this year, 10-0; apparently without her.
Mr baseball she is back at about 60 percent. But we think that will be enough to win district. Kennett will beat portageville then Malden will beat whoever else that gets in their way
Oran scored 147 runs and only allowed 14 runs, 60% may not be enough to win. But Glasstter did a wonderful job for Scott City this year and no is talking about her?
Oran can't beat Malden they are to well rounded
Fall softball has more teams playing. That's about the only difference.
Does that mean Scott City can't beat Malden?
Have not seen Malden play but they hope to do well this year due to the team is losing their senior pitcher after this season and may struggle next year with pitching next year. Oran is returning the entire team so if it is not there year in 2017, next season they should do even better.
Malden has pitchers other then her they will win this year and should repeat next year then Scott city should win the following year
Just looked at Malden schedule, they also only played 2 hard teams and lost to both. Sounds like someone does not like Oran winning over larger schools. They might have class 1 and class 2 next spring and Malden would also be class 2, while Oran still be class 1
Didn't Oran beat Malden last year?
Oran beat Malden 4-2 last year. Oran lost to Scott City twice last year, 4-2 and 7-6. Then Malden beat Scott City 12-5.
Oran will not win it's good they played a water down schedule to be undefeated but it's time to start playing with the better teams. And Malden has proved they are the team to beat.
Malden schedule was not hard, like i said 2 teams , lost to both. But maybe we will see if malden and oran gets that far.
How has Malden proven anything this year? Jebbie, you seem to want to dismiss Oran for some reason. I can't figure out if you are a Scott City fan or Malden. All I know is that you are totally against Oran for some reason. The facts show that Oran, Scott City and Malden are probably competitive with each other. Remember that Oran already beat Scott City this year and Malden last year, so I don't get your logic other than thinking with your heart and not our head.
lol can't go off last year because if u did then portageville would have walked the dog on any one in the spring oh that's right they beat Oran
LOL. Jebbie, you can't have it both ways. You spout out historical data that is more than two years old about Fall softball to make a point, and I spout out data that is this year and last, but that is irrelevant?
Just admit it, you are totally against Oran for some reason even being considered competitive. No one with logical thinking would put Malden on such a pedestal without having some bias. Again, as pointed out by mosoftballfan, Malden has lost to the two good teams they have played, Van Buren and Kennett, while Oran beat Kenett this Spring.
I am correcting myself. DwinsC was the one using historical data to say Oran is not good, rather than Jebbie. I still say Oran is a contender against Malden and Scott City this year.
But u notice Malden is playing better teams
Better teams?? I am not so sure. Beat Twin Rivers 8-7 and lost to the two teams you think are good, Van Buren and Kennett. Again, Oran beat Kennett and Scott City this Spring. What teams do yo consider good on Malden's schedule? I see two, maybe three.
Fact is Oran is 16-0, no one can take that from those girls. You can say what you want facts do not lie. jebbie maybe you should have pride in portageville , the team your daughter plays on win or lose, an not Malden. That is what parents are suppose to do.
Twin Rivers is 3-8 on the Spring, so not a quality opponent.
Oran and Malden had these opponents in common this Spring:
New Madrid County Central
Quality opponents for each that the other didn't face:
Oran played Scott City
Malden played Van Buren
I see no tougher schedule by Malden over Oran.
I'm proud of all the teams in this area I'm just saying Malden will win the state championship this year they have the best shot of doing this. They are more of a complete team. I have seen all the teams in this area play already. I have nothing against Oran it's just my opinion after seeing all the teams. It's easy to get 16-0 schedule going against lesser teams playing them twice
Fair enough. I am not saying Malden will not win state, but my opinion is that Oran is a contender and in the mix. That is all.
True to be told it doesn't matter how many games any of these teams win if they don't win it all. No ones going to look back and say they almost won it all 20 years from now lol
Last thing i have been around softball along time and I have seen it happen time time again teams that are supposed to win they lose and there always teams out there looking to upset a team for the parents getting upset over your opinions on here just remember it's just softball. It's about the kids having fun and the parents enjoying watching them play. Nothing else
jebbie You are the only bashing any teams, everyone else posted facts that can be looked up and checked. It is about the kids and how they have fun, parents usually ruin it for the kids. The girls playing did not set up the schedule, they only play the game and have fun doing it. The end !
No one bashing no team I have never bashed a team. It's my opinion that Malden is the more complete team this year. Do I think other teams has played harder schedules then Oran yes I do. But it doesn't matter what I think nor does it matter what anyone thinks it's what u what to believe. Oran played a great game against kennett I watched it I bragged on them so I'm not bashing them I'm just not hoping on the bandwagon. A lot of people don't think Malden will win it all I'm not mad it's their opinion. It's not bashing them. And if I think one player on your team is a stand out it's not saying the rest are not good just she stood out you are taking this silly chat room personal it's just softball no one is bashing
Wow this sucker blew up over the weekend. I appreciate the debate, at least up to my last post. My whole point was not that Oran was good, or bad, and not that they shouldn't be proud of their record. Only that it is a deceptive one. There are not enough team in the spring to even break them into classes, as they do in the fall. It is my understanding that arguably the only team playing in this area with an equivalent record, Van Buren, is not allowed to seek a state run in the spring because they did in the fall. I may be wrong on that though. If it is the case that is a shame. I still contend that would be a great game and go a long way in bolstering the argument of which season is more competitive. Finally my opinion is the state needs to set one season up for volleyball and one for softball, and only one state route for both.
DwinsC-There is nothing wrong with debating different teams. But you made a statement laced with ignorance in your last post when you stated that Oran "should not be proud of their record." This is high school sports. A teams record is their record. This is not Duke vs. UNC. It's about getting and education and doing your best. Oran's town, school, coaches and players should be very proud of their record to this point, without being satisfied with their record.
ozzyandharriet, perhaps you misunderstood what I typed, or perhaps I phrased it poorly. I was attempting to get across that I had no problem with them being proud of their record, only that their record is deceptive as all the teams they have played, in my opinion are weak teams. In this relative area I only see one strong team and that's Van Buren. Hey I think they have beaten teams any slightly talented, or average team should beat. I have reread my last post several times, and I was pretty clear that they should be proud, but not satisfied since the one team that could challenge their perception of their record will go unplayed. No disrespect intended, just my assessment.
Im excited to have got to watch a ton of great softball this spring,all those teams mentioned hav some quality players that are really fun to watch and will be even better to watch when it comes crunch time. As far as some of the individual players im just praying that if an athlete is being asked or told to compete and knowingly is not at or near their best that a parent or coach would definitely not put there future at risk to satisfy some sort of ego. I do think that after the basketball seasons that the oran school had both boys and girls and the success they've had thus far in baseball and softball that they definitely have some great athletes that are supposedly really young and will be heard alot about for sure. Looking forward to watching all these great teams n athletes strive for the top.
Never mind. I mis read you last post. lol
Van Buren is not even pitching the Shockley girl this spring, most fall teams use spring as practice and experience for fall players that will be on fall roster.
We just looked up van buren schedule and the teams theyve played and still have left definitely doesn't look much more if any impressive than scott city,malden,bernie,oran or kennett. Justa thought here but that girl you mentioned may be van burens number 2or3 starter n with their record n coach i dont think that they're using these as practice games. They are a great team and record comparison van buren and oran definitely need to have a showdown,it would make for a great game to watch for sure.
Holycowman, if what you say is accurate, and Van Buren is using the spring to better their less experienced players, then that really seems to reinforce my point that the fall is far more competitive. It does make sense, especially given that Van Buren pursues state in the fall, and is therefore restricted from such in the spring. I do wonder just how close, given that, a game it would be between the two. Very interesting to speculate.
Oran would be good in Spring, Summer or Fall. The same girls made it to the Final Four in basketball, and by default they are good athletes, and good athletes can play any sport, and play it well. All these teams are playing to win, because the players care.
👍to joefrank comment!!
Sorry joefrank78, basketball and softball are worlds apart. The best athletes struggle hitting and pitching as it is more skill oriented. Not that athleticism is completely useless, only that skill in softball becomes the great equalizer. All that beside the point, there is no indication in Oran's record, or for that matter Kennett's or Scott City's either, that they would be competitive in the fall. That's because the one team that could indicate that will not be playing Oran or Kennett. To say they would be competitive in either, in my opinion, is to completely dismiss the facts. They play weak competition, its that simple. If a single A baseball team goes undefeated in their regular season, no one would discount that, but on the same note no one would expect them to fair as well in AAA. Now the difference between spring and fall may not be that great, but from the record of those that play both it does appear to be significant.
All sports require that the skill level be a greater emphasis than the level of athleticism. Softball is no different then any other sport in that regard. You can have the surest hands in the world and have great accuracy when you throw, but if you can not get to the ball, it does not matter. You can hit a rope in the gap, but on the short field, if you are especially slow you will likely be standing on first and maybe even be thrown out at first if the the ball is hit hard and directly at the outfielder. Skill is the great equalizer in all sports.
You can not use ONLY the record as an indicator of how a team would play in the fall or spring. Maybe a team had a good player ineligible. Maybe the team was a mess from a chemistry standpoint. There are so many factors that come into play. Is the "best" team in the fall better then the "best" team in the spring? Yes. But schools like Kennett, Malden, Oran, Scott City, etc, could compete in the fall if they played to their capabilities.
DwinsC you keep talking about how those fall teams come to spring and beat up on everyone. Here's some research for you. East Carter County fall record 12 and six. Spring record 8 and 6. Naylor fall record 12 and 10. Spring record 3 and 11. Twin Rivers fall record 2 and 10. Spring 3 and 8. East Prairie fall 2 and 11. Spring 7 and 3 but they lost by ten runs to both Scott City and Oran. Van Buren fall record 20 and five and a state championship. Spring record 12-1. Neeleyville fall record 5 and 13. Spring record 6 and 9. Doniphan fall record 7 and 10. Spring record 2 and 12. You claimed in an earlier post that Naylor was an anomaly. With that logic you can say East Prairie is also an anomaly. So throwing those two teams out of the mix, the rest of the teams that play both in the fall and spring have a combined record of 31 and 36 in the spring and a combined record of 42 and 44 in the fall. Not much of a difference and Van Buren had 20 of those 42 victories in the fall. If Van Buren competed for a title in the Spring, they would be the favorite. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't be challenged. They're an elite team--but when you start talking about just an average fall team playing in the spring their record is pretty much the same as the fall. There are four spring teams in Southeast Missouri who would be competetive in the fall--Malden, Kennett, Scott City and Oran. I'm not saying they would win a state title, but they could certainly be a tough matchup for Kelly, Sikeston, Chaffee or Cape Central.
Van Buren is the DwinsC appointed dynasty in softball. HaHa! I take it with a grain of salt. All this talk about minimizing the schools that are playing in the Spring is just opinionated talk.
Talking about skill vs. athleticism. Most of these girls that are the best Spring teams have shown that they can play softball at a highly skillful level.
In my opinion, this thread has run its course. Bottom line
is we disagree that the best Spring teams are mediocre at best vs. Fall teams; NOT.
Well researched mosoftballfan. I hadn't had the time to look into all those. The handful I had lead me to my conclusions. What I did see in the ones you noted was interesting. EC and Naylor had a negative record as compared to the fall. My understanding is that both sought a state route in the fall. I would be curious how many upper classmen and or better players are not playing in the spring. EC was a very good team in the fall giving up double digits only once, and that to PB. In the spring they have given up double digit runs several times. This indicates to me a significant drop in defense. I still find Naylor to be an anomaly because I can't quite put my finger on what might be going on there. Neelyville is weird as well, as I saw no quality wins in the fall, save maybe Sikeston which was inconsistent at best. So their spring record is no shock, especially since they surely lost player participation as they sought a state route in the fall. Doniphan also had no quality wins in the fall that I could see. Teams bad in the fall are typically bad in the spring. I would guess you are correct EP is the real anomaly here. I am not sure why they are fairing better. Unfortunately they are not playing any teams that I can tell this spring that they played in the fall. I would say that by and large those that are playing both are just bad teams. Van Buren being the exception. I think my opinion is valid given the information available to me. I am thinking a game between Van Buren spring roster vs. Oran would be close. Both healthy, Van Buren fall roster would relatively easily dispatch Oran. Now what would persuade me otherwise would be the understanding VB's roster is the same. I am still very impressed that their only loss is to an IL team. That loss, a close one, is more impressive than any Oran win given IL reputation for fielding great softball teams. However that particular one may not be very good. I do not know.
ozzyandharriet, I disagree with your assessment, and I stated why in my previous post.
Mr. Baseball, you may disagree, but I am not sure what in any of these teams records indicates that. My view of the breakdown of their records leads me to my conclusion. Be mindful I am not saying they wouldn't win at all, only that wins would not come near as easy. Take Chaffee for instance, a pretty solid team, but went 12-12 with a win in the regular season over VB. However they were loaded with very good teams, and that lead to a .500 record. I do not think Oran, SC, or Kennett are fielding better teams than Chaffee did.
Yes, this has run it's course. The overall consensus is that Spring softball teams would be competitive in the Fall, with a couple of disentions.
ALL team sports have way more similarities than differences. There is no team sport that is worlds apart from another. Their foundations are the same and they all rely on the mastering of the fundamentals of each sport.
I agree it has run its course, however consensus is irrelevant. Especially given that this subject is completely subjective. If one feels there is no difference between the two seasons they will disregard all facts to the contrary. I am left with but one conclusion. MSHAA needs to set one season. Be it spring or fall, one season. Otherwise both state titles are meaningless.
MAY DAY, MAY DAY, MAY DAY!
Van Buren's loss to the Illinois team wasn't "a close one", it was 7-1. Van Buren also beat Mountain Grove 3-2, and Mountain Grove has lost 7 games this Spring. Then you say Van Buren's Fall team would easily dispatch Oran's Spring team. Again, I do not agree. I know that Malden lost to Van Buren this Spring, but Van Buren is not a softball dynasty. Is this to make Malden look better because they lost to the New York Yankees of softball? HaHa.
Mr. Baseball, to answer your question, no. I don't hold an especially high opinion of Malden either. No one insisted VB is a dynasty, only that they are one of the best teams in the spring, and apparently doing that without the drive to a state title. Yes the IL game was close, in a relative sense given the number of blowout games I have seen this spring. I believe what gets lost in all this is the ridiculousness of having 2 seasons. Plain and simple there just are not enough spring teams to provide the competition to fairly compare to the fall. What are the number of teams in the spring about 1/3 the number that play fall? I would say that would be about right given there are not enough to even divide them into classes in the spring, but plenty enough to do so in the fall. Seems that we need one season, or remove a route for state in one to encourage more schools to participate in the other. Until then 1/3 of the states teams will continue to have people insist they are as good as 2/3 of the teams they will never face.
One disadvantage to Spring is the weather. The early games can be frigid and wet and then up until distrix it can be just plain wet as we have seen lately. Softball is mighty tuff to play in bad weather due the larger ball, smaller bats, etc. Fall ball is rarely affected by weeks of damp weather. On the other hand, college season is Spring so who knows?
DwinsC the reason the move to the spring was to benefit small schools with limited girl programs that took away from each other. If you look at the number of teams in the fall compared to teams in the spring now. Almost all of Southeast MO has moved to the spring. Why? Because of volleyball and limited number of athletes. The majority of small schools left in the fall don't have volleyball. BTW How many dominant volleyball schools in years past had poor fall records but great spring records. Why? Because the better athletes weren't split between sports. Also some schools are weak in the spring because they never offered softball until the last few years and only played volleyball in the fall.
If you want we can put money in and host a tournament of the 8 best small school teams of spring and fall and just prove who has the best team. Lets say the cutoff is 1A-3A
Give me your 8 best fall teams. I'll take the top teams in the spring. This should be fun.
OzzyandHarriet was spot on with the previous post.
Softball Fan Fam, the reasoning is lost on me. Why isn't volleyball only a on season program and played in the spring where weather outdoors is not as conducive to softball as cirithungol17 noted? I understand the whole limited number of athletes thing, but two seasons with one having nearly twice the number of schools makes no sense. All sports should have one season, then schools can pick which sports they wish or are capable of participating in. This two season thing is so nonsensical to me.
I remember hearing the same talk about basketball with the same Oran girls on these forums. I'm sure they were laughing all the way to the final four. They have a bunch of athletes for a small school I will never underestimate them again most are sophomore and younger. I've already had my big helping of crow.
Until one of these teams win a state championship then nothing else matters. You keep talking about Oran and other teams none but kennett has won a state title let's give it two weeks then we will know what team was for real and who wasn't.
Good God, Mrs. Dirden, give it a rest.
jebbie you know sometimes the out come in sports is determined by the umpires, as in the Portageville game a couple of years ago. Just because a team does not win state does not mean a team was not for real.
Are all of those oran girls home grown? 😊
Spring softball topix. what team will be loosing the most this season not who's bring more kids back ? My opinion it would be kennett
Let me ask one more time. Are those oran girls from oran?
I think so
Sonny boy- that was the worst decision / most ridiculous thing I've ever come across in high school sports...Portageville had a very good reason to be upset. From what I've heard TWO of the MSHSAA higher-ups are former Portageville admins and didn't offer ANY help or even an explanation and made Portageville apologize. Just what I heard.
I think there are at least 11 or 12 from Oran's Softball team that are home grown. Other players, not sure, but they may be all home grown.
Easy Mr. Baseball, those Portageville folks get touchy when talking about home grown players.
Well, maybe a couple are test tube babies? I know some parents were on the cutting-edge of science.
Had Portageville not hired a pitcher from blythville they would not have even been there.
And there it is...
Sound like little tribe is hating lol. Any updates on games today
Portageville beat New Madrid 10-3
Congrats to the teams that won their districts today.
Mr baseball, I only bring it up because the only schools that anyone wants to talk about with move ins are private schools and SCC. Three of orans best players are move ins that came to oran in Jr high. I think that it is fine. I just find it odd that the move in police in our little group have failed to mention this.
I really have no clue about the so-called "move-ins". If they did move to the Oran district for sports, then it is no better than the private schools, in my opinion. There is nothing illegal about moving your family into a school district. There is a difference between what is morally right and what is legal though. One thing is, did they move for sports; which would be very hard to prove. Some tough questions to answer, that will never be remedied.
I agree. I really don't have a problem even if they moved for sports. Who am I to dictate what is best for a kid? Like I said, I just find it odd that those people that make up scenarios about SCC and private schools have said nothing about oran. Those girls work their butts off and are good kids.
Scott City5 Oran3
Is the Scott City vs. Oran game finished or was it delayed due to rain? If complete, congratulations to Scott City!
Reports I heard that Scott city was hitting the cover off the ball really locked in. So might not be a good sign for the other team
Most runs score on Oran all year in one game and it was only two inning
Easy there Jebbie, it is not over yet, and from what I hear, Oran was scoring as well. It is not 15-3, but 5-3. So are they continuing this when fields allow or what is the schedule?
I hope they continue. These teams are very good. It shouldn't be decided on two innings.
No hating little jebbiee, just fact,she was good and worked her tail off but everyone knows how that went. I find it odd that people speak badly about larger schools in spring ball, but no one ever mentions Dexter, they have good athletes, a larger school than Kennett. But they dont win a lot in softball. You see its not as much about size as it is the culture and support for the kids. I know first hand that lots of parents spend lots of time and effort traveling and working with the girls from Kennett at an early age in softball and it is continuing with the younger girls now. Its as important as how many kids you have, you just need nine girls and a good pitcher. Portageville, Naylor, Oran , and many other small schools have consistently good teams because of that. So if you want your teams to succeed, spend some time,effort and money. Invest in your kids and let them enjoy the rewards, its worth every minute and penny. I will admit I have girls that played and one that does play for Kennett. I know how hard the girls work year round and how many years they have worked traveling and on their own.My girls have no regrets. I hope that instead of us adults beating each other up about this spring and fall ,big versus small thing, first and foremost are you doing all you can to put your girls in a position to be successful. OK I'm done ,sorry if I offended any one. Yes Oran is solid,the beat us early in a low scoring game , we looked flat and would like to play them again. But they have earned it.
I agree with you little tribe it's true everything u said
It looks like Scott City vs. Oran will occur Saturday at 11 am. I assume that they will start where they left off.
jebbie you seem to take enjoyment in disliking Oran I'm not sure why. But there are 5 more innings left to play and this time in better weather, so we will see how this plays out before you give Scott City the title.
I never gave no one the title I heard they were hitting the ball good and I replied on here what I heard. I also heard the Payne girl had a great hit. So good for her I'm happy she did. I don't hate Oran I don't know much about them I'm just giving my opinions on the teams I know I'm friends with people on every team in this area I wish all my friends kids the best as they play. Sonny I think your looking into this post way to much. It's just softball it don't pay the bills so no reason to get upset
Scott City 11 - Oran 9. Final
Sounds like it was a good game. Congrats to Scott city and tonoran for a perfect reg season
Congratulations to Scott City. Sounds like it was a slugfest by the score.
Common sense tells me that if you are a class 1 team, the spring comp is at least as tough as the fall...probably tougher.
If you class 4 team, PHC for example, you are going to be playing much weaker/smaller schools.
Scott City and Oran was a great District 1 Championship game. Hats off to Scott city they did great.
Hope Scott City plays hard in state.
Sorry , district 4 game
Spring Districts #16 teams advancing 15 #1 seeds and 1 #2 seed. Good luck to all the southeast teams!
Oran vs Scott City was really not that great of game,lots of miss plays, walks and hit by pitches. Was dramatic not knowing what was going to happen next, give u that.
Kennett played both fall softball and spring softball during the following years: 2006-2010. The Lady Indians' fall schedule consisted of such teams as Festus, Windsor, Cape Central, Norte Dame, Sikeston, and Poplar Bluff to name a few. Their record was always above .500, and they had players nominated for All-District. In the spring, the Lady Indians were tough to beat. By this group's Sr year, they were totally undefeated with no one hitting off the Lady Indian pitcher. At this time though, there was no spring state. Now, which season do I think helped the ladies out more? Definitely the fall... However our school is not big enough to do both anymore.
Wow, Scott City beats Malden. Congratulations Scott City, as some thought Malden was THE team to beat. It looks like Scott City, Oran, and Kennett are competitive teams this Spring. Good luck to the remaining teams from SEMO area!
Congrats to Scott City Rams, that team is going to miss the three big senior hitters next year. Mott, Buckner and Glassetter's bat has made that team this season. Some freshman/sophomore is going to have some really big shoes to fill.
Yes The road to state through Malden was not very long.
Lol smh. Well pulling for Scott city now that my other two district winners are out of it. Because it's about the kids and I have some good friends on Scott city and Malden. That's why I will be there cheering them on. And if they get beat I will support kennett because I want to see our area do good instead of the team your kid plays for softball is bigger then one team
Plus Brenda aka sonnyboy u know u went to the game hoping Malden would beat Scott city
Jebbie " steve roberts " you state that state would go through malden, just wanted to the team. And my name is not brenda. " D-A "
I am Brenda, actually. I decided to join the chat since you decided to bring my name up. Also, I was there at the Sectional game to cheer on my niece from Scott City. So next time get your facts straight.
Sounds like Jebbie8888 just has a problem.
No problem I understand it's just softball I don't get upset over this site lol it was my opinion at the time Malden was the best team they was playing at a great level. And it's Stephen not Steve but just join me in wishing the teams left from this area good luck. And stop crying about this silly chat room.
Jebbie (Stephen), you are the one that started the childish name calling. When people don't have anything good to say, they start either name calling, yelling, or both. We see where you stand. Go Scott City!!
Well Slammer, Mr Baseball and sonny8, jebbie888 sure doesn't like you guys much. Get him girl, no one likes bullies.
Ok this is turning into a bigger joke by the min. Once again it's about the kids and it's just softball you goofs
Tell that to yourself, Jebbie
next time you comment^
All I have been doing is stating my opinion not bashimg no team. But I do feel like it's going to be hard to beat Scott city now dirben is back she is a stud.
Oh wow!!! I'm late, so late to the Spring Ball Meeting!!! After reading everything going on with this thread..... I have a couple of things to say..... Oran, Scott City, Malden and Kennett are by far the only competition in this area. Unfortunately to get more experienced teams, you have to travel to places like West County, Marion, Van Buren and West Plains just to name a few. Every team has its good days and its bad days. You can't judge a team by one bad game. And finally, Jebbie8888888888, maybe my name is Brenda..... who knows?
Clearly know nothing about softball if u think them four are the only teams. U got three of them right because every year it's the same teams if you notice the same four teams wins their districts and it happen again this year. But it's fine because it's your opinion and I respect that.
Next year it will be the same four teams winning their districts
Personally I don't put Portageville in that group and I'll tell you why. Up until this year they solely relied on their pitcher to win games. Once She graduated, the team was left without any fielding. And that is my opinion too. Oh and btw, I know way more about softball and other things than you realize...
Since we are offering our opinions. 2018 Port in district 1, Ken district 2, both no one to challenge them. Bernie district 3, district 4 toss up again. IT'S just softball.
I don't know so much about that Jebbie kennett is losing some big hitting seniors, Scott City is losing some big hitting seniors and Malden is losing a bunch of seniors. It's a whole new ballgame next year. Sounds like the only team that is returning there complete team is Oran. And that's pretty studly team, they had a ton of big quality hits in there last game against Scott City.
District 4 for sure a toss up Sonnyboy..... both Oran and Scott City have strong Pitching and fielding. It could be anyone's game next year. Hopefully all the glitches for both those teams will be worked out by then.
Oh and those tons of big hits was against the one you call the "stud".
Bumble u don't know me and all I know is that stud won her district the last two years and is going to the next two. Everyone knows she is hands down the best pitcher and one of the strongest hitters in Missouri her stats show it. And I'm proud to know her and her family great people. So please don't bash them over me. Talk about me because you tickle me because one person three profiles lol because no one believes the stuff that's being put on here by you
Last thing as far as Oran goes I think they have some good players. The Payne girl help them get to the championship with out her I can't see them winning a lot. Good second baseman and center fielder to Name a few
Someone sounds alittle paranoid and trying to start trouble, Jebbie888 just let it go and stop trying to start problems.
Are u crazy I'm not doing anything this all started with my opinion about Malden you wackjob whatever team u have and opinion about put it on here I won't comment I could care less about u or your other profiles as far as Paul I like him I think he straight forward sounds like your the one trying to start trouble bashing a man that hasn't said nothing to u. Get over yourself and start another topix about your team
Excuse me, I have bashed no man or no team!!
I'm done this is stupid a waste of my time
Scott City strong fielding??????
Clearwater will also be a strong team returning all their pitchers and 7 starters.
Rocking5, Oran being studly is a bit of an overstatement. As compared to what I am not sure. I will say this Bunble_Bee seems to be on point with no real competition in this area. If these teams want tested they need to step outside of this area. That would have benefited them greatly. That is why I had said that Oran's record was deceptive. I believe Scott City has a good chance of making the final four, but whether they or Kennett does they will be dispatched quickly by their opponent. If I were Stafford I would be pretty stoked. They should handle WC. I wouldn't be surprised if they run ruled either SC or Kennett. Stafford is tested and has the easiest route. Teams from this area in the spring just have no idea how competitive softball is in the fall or elsewhere in the state.
Time will tell whether or not Scott City or Kennett can handle other teams from other parts of the state. I am not saying Scott City or Kennett will win after their match-up, but I will be definitely cheering them on! Upsets do happen, and in DwinsC eyes, our SEMO teams are underdogs. It doesn't stop my enthusiasm though.
Mr. Baseball, I agree time will tell, but odds are Stafford walks through. Take a look at their schedule. Very strong. I am not saying our area teams are underdogs, I am saying they are not very good. That's not meant to be derogatory, only an assessment based on their record and performances. In fairness I have not seen Stafford play, so perhaps they have played teams even worse than the ones our area's spring teams have played. And to be clear I am not picking Stafford to win state, only to make it to the final game as their path is clear of any real competition save maybe WC.
I am not sure if Strafford has been tested much this Spring either. I am not familiar with the teams they played, but a lot of double-digit wins. It could be that they have not played very good competition either; rather than being real strong. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. From my observations, it looks like Purdy may be a team to contend with, as they split with Strafford this Spring.
I know I seemed to double speak. I said they were very strong, and then conceded that there schedule might have been weak. I apologize for that. I looked at their record a bit more closely. They played what probably were some weak teams, but they went 1-1 against Purdy which also only had 1 loss. Both were close game with neither team scoring double digits. I would say that both are relatively strong. Would make for a good final, if Purdy can make it. Appears their path is a bit more tumultuous than Stafford's.
I know Kennett played some quality opponents , Dyer co. Tn. , Class 5 state runner up Paragould ark, Class 5 Green county tech ark. Joneboro westside was a rainout. So we did try to play tougher competition to prepare the team for a state tournament, we will see if it helped
We won 2 of those 3 games, lost to Dyer county . We will lose our catcher who is a great hitter and two other girls that hit ok. Our pitching and the rest of the team will be back.
I'll pick Pierce City or Strafford to win it all, they both have been in fall State Tourny before. Most of all other teams from other parts of state did play fall ball but where always in cellar in their district, so they moved to spring. Bootheel by far the only area with spring teams that never played in fall before. Will also have to pick Kennett over Scott City just due to Kennett seems to have better defense and just little better athletes on the field, just cant believe SC'S defense wont catch up to them sooner are later. Not hating, just what I see on field.
Here's my prediction, just for the fun of it. Strafford over Purdy in the championship. Scott City over Lincoln for 3rd place.
As far as debate over spring vs fall all u have to do is look at portageville, perfect test case during 4 yrs in fall tourny and playing spring. Record fall (28) loses in spring (5) loses, seems clear.
Mr. Baseball I like the Stafford/Purdy prediction, and Lincoln making it to the 3rd place game. However, I don't look for either Kennett or SC to finish higher than 4th. Both should fall to their knees and be thankful they are in the bracket where they are. Any other section neither would make it past the second round.
We are thankful, just like when we won it all the first two years oh wise one.Kennett up 4 to 0 top 4th
Tribe man-- any more updates from Kennett?
Glassetter hit a 3 run homer in 7th .top 8th tied at 4
Keep us posted
4- 4 bottom 9
Kennett wins bottom 9th
We are thankful
Wow. Sounds like a great game! Congratulations to Kennett. Good season Scott City!
I think fall softball does have better teams over all, but the fact is larger schools playing spring class one would not compete in the classes they would be in the fall, exam. : kennett would be in class 3, Scott City class 2 or 3. A class 1 example Oran would be in class 1 fall or spring and would be able to compete with the same size schools. Portageville played class 2 in fall that is why they looked good in spring when they played both, but still was unable to when a state title in spring. Larger schools have more girls to choose from to field a team.
this is first year portageville played in spring for state
It was a great game ,both teams left it all on the field. Congratulations to Scott City on a great season.
HOLYCOWMAN you obviously haven't read the post about Kennett having fall softball during the following years: 2006-2010. They weren't in the cellar either. Lol Now to present day, I can't wait for next week, once a Lady Indian softball fan, always a Lady Indian softball fan!!
Congratulations to Kennett on their win! It was a hard fought game for both teams. Good job Scott City! Both schools should be proud!!!
Softballmom, Did they ever win district, "no"
last 4 years in spring 2 state championships and another final 4 appearance tells the story all i'm saying. I hope they win next weekend.
I hope we play Kelley next year
The point many are making is that the top teams in the Spring this year would be competitive in the Fall. Many are not saying the Spring is better or just as good as the Fall competition, but that Oran, Kennett, Scott City, Portageville, to name several, would at least be competitive against their similar class, top rated schools in the Fall. Again, at least I am not saying the Spring is as competitive top to bottom as the Fall (yet), but some people are saying that the Spring top teams would MAYBE be 0.500 club if they played in the Fall. I don't believe that.
Tribe man is Kennett moving to the fall in order to play Kelly? I ask because Kelly isn't moving to the spring because of soccer.
Kennett not only beat Scott City but had to beat the umps too. Game ended in the 7th with the Pickens catch. Despite this they kept fighting. These girls are fighters.
The Umps at that game did a very good job and I was setting out in the outfield and had a very good view of the play and she did pin it against the fence
So dodgeball you were sitting out by the fence? I am sure you had a great view of everything 🤣
Deathpunch... the ball rolled out of her glove and if it had not been for the fence, the ball would've have dropped to the ground but instead it flipped back to her glove. Not a clean catch.... so yep dodgeball is right.....
The picture doesn't show the ball was pinned, she was juggling the ball and moving the whole time ? And there was a banner on the field side of the fence so I dont understand how anyone on the other side of the fence would have seen it. But it doesn't matter I dont guess, we won anyway. I guess we will give her credit to just getting there to make a play.
Just wanted to wish kennett the best of luck
Anyone know any live radio broadcast for the game? Really don't want to pay to watch it.
The Indians roster is composed of three seniors, eight juniors, two sophomores and one freshman . . .
Daily Dunklin Democrat
The bulk of the team will return next year of course with a huge gap left by the catcher and slugger Criswell.
I am a bit impressed by Kennett. Whether Stafford had a bad day or what I do not know, but Kennett kept it close. So hats off to them. They did take 4th as I had imagined they would, but at least they weren't run out of there as I had thought.
Thats what was so disappointing, we made some errors from nerves I guess, that we normally dont make in both games, I mean 3 routine pop flies that hit in the glove and out. We were giving away outs and still held Strafford to their lowest runs all year, Lincoln's pitcher had a 0.38 era and we scored 6 runs,the most anyone had scored on her all year and lost by 2. It was very tough for the kids ,they know we were better ,but thats life and you suck it up. But I was proud of them and we did have a chance to still win both but it just wasn't meant to be . I'm proud of the girls who kept fighting. Lessons learned.
Great season Kennett!! From one Indian fan in Jackson to all of you Indian fans there!!
Thank you, wish we had won it all again for semo, we will try again next season.
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