High School Football Forum: Teams forfeiting games vs. Privates in STL

Posted by Bogey Man on Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 10:48 AM:

Good thread going on MOSports that is almost comical. Teams are forfeiting games vs. Trinity and Lutheran North in St. Louis, claiming to have too many injuries to field a squad. Trinity was unheard of as a football school until they hired the coach 3 yrs ago that also happens to run the Junior Football League in the city of St. Louis. Suddenly, Trinity now has 6 of the top 15 junior recruits in Missouri, all sources are saying went to public grade schools. Lutheran North is loaded as well. Not sure, but both are either Class 2 or 3. Not many rural Class 2 or 3 teams with 6 DI recruits on their team. LOL And lots of transfers to privates being granted hardships to not have to sit out 365 days. Reportedly, the latest scam is to check the box under reason for transferring as "felt unsafe at previous school", and MSHSAA grants hardship.

There's nothing in MSHSAA rules about forfeiting games. Guess it was time for some schools to make a statement and get MSHSAA's attention. Hilarious situation right now unfolding.

Replies (100)

  • Just checked, both are Class 2 and in the same district. Good luck SEMO area Class 2 teams.

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 10:55 AM
  • Yea played Trinity last year they were loaded with talent all over the field. Tough to beat teams with a loaded deck of cards.

    -- Posted by swampdaddy on Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 12:07 PM
  • You just need to recruit better!

    -- Posted by blue recruiter on Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 12:13 PM
  • MSHSAA don't care. Blue Springs team that won state a few years back blatantly disregarded the contact days policy and the trophy is still in their trophy case. In turn several other programs decided they don't have to follow those rules now either, including a couple in our area.

    -- Posted by RollGreenWave on Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 12:53 PM
  • *

    Funny thing is they didn't schedule each other. Same class in the same district makes no sense. Lamar will show them how the game is played!!!!

    -- Posted by JustLoveTheGame on Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 1:02 PM
  • I suspect Trinity to be much improved from last year. They are leaps and bounds better than 2 years ago. I think Lamar will eventually have trouble with them, sooner than later. Hopefully private schools get their own bracket. In hopes we can stop hearing about it and the playing field becomes closer to level.

    -- Posted by Pville.dawg on Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 1:51 PM
  • should be two different divisions

    -- Posted by chsfan185 on Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 2:23 PM
  • I heard St PiusX in Festus was found to be recruiting and the state ignored it.

    -- Posted by SEMOvbfan on Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 4:37 PM
  • Well, Pius needs to recruit better, they aren’t better than “good” at anything.

    -- Posted by ThadCastle on Thu, Oct 12, 2017, at 8:43 PM
  • Last year's game was quite close (in my opinion) and showed that a talented team beats a team of talented players. Their sportsmanship from the boys, to the parents, to the coachs was sad. It's one thing for a player to be disrespectful, but it's another to see adults. This was a win that meant even more as they were convinced they would win. It will be interesting to see how the game between Lutheran and Trinity will go as they are in the same district.

    -- Posted by LHSTigerFan on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 1:03 AM
  • -- Posted by Tim Riggins on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 8:53 AM
  • Just getting ready to post same article Tim. In all fairness, note that Priory and Dubourg are private schools that have forfeited to Lutheran North and Trinity.

    BUT article does confirm rumor going around earlier in the week - after St. Charles informed Trinity that they were forfeiting, St. Charles then contacted Normandy, asking Normandy to game vs. Lutheran North, AND THEN Normandy play St. Charles instead tonight. Normandy would not comment for the article.

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 8:58 AM
  • In the article he states that he coached junior league and these players want to play for him, he doesn't have to "chase" them, doesn't that prove they are transferring for athletics and should have to sit out a year?

    -- Posted by OnTheProwl on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 10:09 AM
  • *

    'St. Charles attempting to play Normandy instead of Trinity would challenge the argument that St. Charles is too injured to play.

    “I think it’s because we are an all-African-American team with an African -American coach,” Reed said of forfeits.'

    Shame on this coach...the replacement is Normandy a team with *gasp* predominantly black players and coaches. Same can be said for another team going ahead and playing Cardinal Ritter but not them...Ritter another team that's predominantly? Yep, black.

    It's not your team's skin color it's the fact that your program is known to be blantantly cheating. And you're a private school. If teams not feeling safe is the issue wouldn't this be more of an issue with the predominantly black public schools like Riverview Gardens, Vashon, Normandy? What a moron and a disgrace to coaches. You're supposed to set an example for your players...is the example you want to set is to cry racism when something doesn't go their way?

    -- Posted by WWE Guru on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 10:52 AM
  • semovbfan- Pius had multiple schools with a ton of evidence to prove that they were recruiting kids from the area schools. State kept pushing it back and once summer hit it was basically forgotten about and now they are back at it

    -- Posted by Rowdy09 on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 11:09 AM
  • WWE - how do you prove "recruiting?" and what constitutes recruiting or "undue influence?" If Patterson coached these 6 DI recruits as middle schoolers in a recreational league, gets hired as head coach at Trinity, and makes a suggestion to them or their families on attending high school at Trinity, is that recruiting? Many privates have summer camps for any athlete entering high school - is that recruiting? Now if discounts on tuition is being offered, then I would say 'Yes" that if proof of recruiting. And has anyone very been found guilty of recruiting by MSHSAA besides Floyd Irons, who left a paper trail of paid expenses for players.

    Recruiting is thrown around a lot of this and MOSports, but it is very hard to prove unless a kid or parent comes right out and say "yes my coach did this or that so I would attend his school". Now who is going to do that?

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 11:34 AM
  • *

    Biggest issue we've got going here is that the blatant recruiting is typically reserved for the big guys(CBC, Vianney and the likes) when u take those high caliber athletes and say hey we're gonna go drop down to class 2 ball, the smaller communities are gonna be irked. MSHSAA isn't going to do anything about it, therefore the schools up that way have decided that they can take matters into their own hands and just won't play them

    -- Posted by Bill Shakespeare on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 11:48 AM
  • *

    This is just a question for you semo people. We hear year in, year out here in south central mo, that Valle Catholic recruits. Does this have truth to it?

    -- Posted by libertyeaglefan on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 3:31 PM
  • I would say no on Valle recruiting, beyond getting a kid from SG here and there, there is virtually no unexpected talent that comes through. Where they getcha is their new weight facility has a field turf area to it. Perfect for all year round drill work

    -- Posted by Sammy Langhorne on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 3:58 PM
  • One way to get around most of the problems mentioned here is to maybe tell the public schools AD not to schedule any private schools. I don't think there is any MSHAA rule that says you have to. It doesn't appear MSHAA is going to do anything about these problems anytime soon.

    -- Posted by pmstewert420 on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 8:37 PM
  • *

    Even if there are no violations with the accusations/complaints it wouldn't be a bad idea for MSHSAA to look into it just to clear these two schools names.

    -- Posted by WWE Guru on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 8:54 PM
  • I could go on and on about private schools. I guess the one good thing about them is we can all trash talk each other on here all day long, but at the end of the day, at least we can all agree the catholic schools should sport their own districts.

    In regards to what some of you are asking about recruitment, the next time you play a catholic school, check the program for junior high school listings. Last time I did this I was able to find approximately half the team was from MORE THAN AN HOUR FROM THE SCHOOL originally. I wish I could underline that.

    -- Posted by EaglesBoi on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 9:15 PM
  • Valle Catholic does not recruit !! And if St. Pius recruits they need to learn how to better because St. Pius got smoked tonight by Valle Catholic!

    -- Posted by blue blue on Fri, Oct 13, 2017, at 11:58 PM
  • *

    I can tell you our teams in SEMO like Caruthersville, Valle, Malden would still play them, D1 players or not. May not win, but we look at it as a learning, getting better experience. I'd love to see Cville schedule Trinity or Lutheran North. We've played some very good teams the last several years. Valle, SG, Lamar, Mountain View Liberty. I wouldn't blame the other teams though if they didn't want to play them. Maybe one day, MSHSAA will open their eyes to this issue and something will get done.

    -- Posted by Cheesehead. on Sat, Oct 14, 2017, at 12:17 AM
  • Playing MICDS today! Hope to win one for the public's.

    -- Posted by F.O.P on Sat, Oct 14, 2017, at 5:14 AM
  • Bogey Man, I must be missing something somewhere in your comments. What is so "hillarious, funny" about the situation you described happening in St Louis and our own Class 2 schools?

    -- Posted by mule67 on Sat, Oct 14, 2017, at 7:02 AM
  • WWE Guru, I agree from what I have read. Why stir up this race crap with every other word out of someone's mouth about sports and any skin color advantage or disadvantage. Most times there is no "race card", whatever that is, to draw.

    -- Posted by mule67 on Sat, Oct 14, 2017, at 7:17 AM
  • I guess "bizarre" would be a better description. I did read some additional info off Mosports that can shed some more light on this situation.

    Yesterday, St. Charles West released a press release with an explanation. In mid Sept., Lutheran North contacted St Charles West about forfeiting a softball game because LN did not have enough players. LN suggested that St C West contact another school to play instead because LN was also going to forfeit to them, so all schools agreed. They also stated that St. C West had 10 lineman injured and only 5 available lineman to play Trinity and they would have to play both ways. They were concerned about the safety of their players playing both ways against a high caliber opponent. So just as they had done in softball, St. Charles West thought that they would try to make a switch in the schedule, so they contacted Normandy, a lesser opponent who was scheduled to play Lutheran North, and try to switch opponent for this week, with St. Charles West playing Normandy and Trinity playing Lutheran North. Trinity refused because LN is a district opponent and didn't want to play them again in just a couple weeks. St. Charles West thought that since it was OK to make the switch in softball, it would not be a big deal to switch in football. I guess the 5 lineman would be OK playing both ways against a lesser opponent. They denied that race had any bearing with the decision.

    Another point that has people upset is the players that have transferred to Trinity and Lutheran North that were granted hardships and not required to sit out 365 days. The poster who started the thread on Mosports had all the inside scoop. In 2016, 3 skill position players (and he used their names since they are on national recruiting lists) transferred to Trinity and were immediately eligible. In 2017, the second leading rusher from Class 5 Hazelwood West and the leading rusher from Class 4 Vashon both transferred to Lutheran North, granted hardships and immediately eligible. How can MSHSAA ever allow this is beyond belief, when it should be obvious that they all transferred for athletic reasons, no matter what was written on the hardship request.

    One poster also stated that he counted the number of players from last year's roster and this year's roster at Trinity, a small Class 2 team mind you, and this year's team has 16 new players.

    So I guess what is "funny" is MSHSAA is allowing these players to transfer to a better team without any consequences. The flood gates are open.....anything goes!!!!

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Sat, Oct 14, 2017, at 7:54 AM
  • *

    Well, I assume there are a number of Trinity fans trolling this forum, so I will throw this out there for you to fret over till the day we play; Lamar isn't losing any sleep over the thought of having to match up with you again. Not trying to be disrespectful, it just seems that everyone wants to hand the state trophy over before the game is played. We will show up, be polite, play with character, and we will see who the better football team is. For what it is worth, we aren't going to worry about the recruiting. Fact of the matter is this...until MSHSSA decides to do something about it, then the game has to be played. Recruiting or no, if it takes a team of Class 4 transfers, who are high level D1 prospects, to beat us; we will move on and not give it another thought. Classes were developed to create like competition, if this is undermined by deceitful practices; it is not a reflection on our team. It will always be a reflection on the others.

    -- Posted by Frototheheadhunter on Sun, Oct 15, 2017, at 6:57 PM
  • Yep, what he said. 👆

    -- Posted by OnTheProwl on Sun, Oct 15, 2017, at 9:01 PM
  • MSHSSA are a bunch of idiots obviously!

    -- Posted by Oldschool15 on Sun, Oct 15, 2017, at 9:19 PM
  • What headhunter said.

    -- Posted by ThadCastle on Mon, Oct 16, 2017, at 1:45 PM
  • No way im forfeiting a game there are only 9 to begin with. Take you but whooping like a man and move on. Eventually trinity and lutheren will have down years and they will be getting their butts whooped....You don't cancel a game period. I played games with 4 lineman...you put a couple LBs or TEs in a 50 or 60 number stick him at tackle and play. you do not forfeit PERIOD. Just like a few years ago Malden put up 60+ on everybody nobody down here cried and forfeited we are just waiting for them to have a down year and we will put up 60+ us on them....

    NO FORFEITING

    -- Posted by SouthEspn on Mon, Oct 16, 2017, at 3:36 PM
  • Kennett vs Lutheran North,Trinity ,Cardinal Ritter or John Burroughs

    Cville vs. Lutheran North,Trinity,Cardinal Ritter or John Burroughs

    Hayti vs Cardinal Ritter

    These would be good matchups

    -- Posted by Kennett fan on Mon, Oct 16, 2017, at 9:35 PM
  • Kennett fan,kennett or cville but most especially kennett would not be a good game with LN,or Trinity

    -- Posted by Ramfanman on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 7:13 AM
  • Cville and Kennett could combine and LN and Trinity would still beat them by 5 Td's

    -- Posted by Coachken on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 7:54 AM
  • Cool, Ken.

    -- Posted by PimpDaddyTaddy on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 8:09 AM
  • CBC, Vianney, Trinity, Desmet, etc all recruit. Anyone arguing against this has no idea. I have seen it first hand and taken part in it when I taught at a private school. It is happening all over STL. I can't speak for Pius but Valle and SV don't necessarily recruit but are able to have students attend their school from all areas. Notre Dame(Cape) although they don't have football they have kids attend their school from 8-10 different zip codes. Whether they go out and recruit these kids is beyond me. I used to be against separating private and public but after seeing how bad STL private schools come in and take athletes away from public schools who cannot do anything about it makes me re-think.

    -- Posted by Tim Riggins on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 9:39 AM
  • I don't disagree with any of the comments above, but if your gonna call out city private schools - what about the ones down here like Valle, Cape ND, etc... Who also have kids flow in from outside in different sports - Just saying.

    Fact of the matter is Schools are gonna do whatever they can get away with to win because winning builds more exposure. Until MSHSAA does something - it won't change.

    -- Posted by thatDude on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 9:55 AM
  • Not a Valle guy....but when does Valle have kids "flow" in.

    -- Posted by Coachken on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 11:08 AM
  • Coachken, also not a Valle guy. I've had a parent tell me flat out the reverse has happened in SG, the PUBLIC school coach talked to his son to come to SG instead going to Valle.

    -- Posted by mojo3 on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 11:38 AM
  • Smaller private schools like Valle and SV are taking the students they can get. Both are down in enrollment compared to years past. Its the bigger private schools in STL that really do the recruiting. They have to recruit. They have to convince kids and parents to spend a ton of money over free public education plus they are recruiting against the other private schools. Anyone that says it doesn't happen is crazy.

    -- Posted by Tim Riggins on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 11:44 AM
  • I would try to have the best recruiter possible. Why not, as long as it's within the rules. But apparently, there are no more rules. And that's a shame. Time to split public and private and let them fight it out.

    -- Posted by Forrest Gump on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 12:08 PM
  • In the case of a Valle, I actually think it's the opposite. I would not be surprised if they limited their enrollment to a certain extent to maintain their current classifications in sports like football, baseball and volleyball. Just an opinion.

    -- Posted by ozzyandharriet on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 1:04 PM
  • ozzyandharriet that is the craziest thing I have heard yet. Very, very funny though.

    -- Posted by blue recruiter on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 1:10 PM
  • oh come on, bluey. I said it was just my opinion. I have no idea. I don't think Valle is out recruiting like crazy. Their programs recruit themselves. But the idea of limiting enrollment, although you're probably right in that they don't, isn't that far fetched.

    -- Posted by ozzyandharriet on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 1:39 PM
  • trust me, they want the extra kids.

    -- Posted by blue recruiter on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 2:11 PM
  • Private schools also can keep 79% boys and avoid having to automatically double enrollment.That's one reason for the 35% multiplier. And yes, "most " take advantage of this. But we can't research it because private schools won't allow someone to do so. Nor the financials of the school to see who is getting a full ride! At least that's how it used to be.

    -- Posted by Forrest Gump on Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 2:32 PM
  • ozzyandharriet

    Your opinion is correct I don't care what the Valle guys say lol....If I'm growing up in St. Gen and I play fball I want to go to Valle to win a ring PERIOD. I'm sure there are plenty of boys that want to go to Valle that cannot get in so they can stay class 1. As big as St. Gen is Valle could easily be Class 2 or bigger but they limit that enrollment to stay class 1 and nobody can tell be otherwise.

    Valle does not have to go and recruit THEY ARE VALLE but they turn kids down which is definitely an advantage over public schools.

    -- Posted by SouthEspn on Wed, Oct 18, 2017, at 9:54 AM
  • I understand the debate on recruiting, etc. but what bothers me most (and I'm not sure why) is that Lutheran North's football coaching staff calls themselves "Scholarship High." And no, they don't mean academic or private scholarships --they're talking about athletic (more specifically, football) scholarships.

    -- Posted by PimpDaddyTaddy on Wed, Oct 18, 2017, at 10:00 AM
  • For the 1,000,001 time, Valle does not recruit or turn kids away, or do anything to keep enrollment numbers down. I can guarantee anyone that they would love to have more students paying more tuition. And I am a Ste. Gen. guy. The ongoing rumor/joke around Ste. Gen. for as long as I can remember is that they are always 1 or 2 years away from closing the doors because they are going broke. Ask a Valle parent sometime how much money their teachers are making compared to Ste. Gen. public. You would be shocked at how little Valle pays their teachers compared to any public school. That's why so many teachers from Valle over the years end up at Ste. Gen. public - the pay is better. Anyone who says they turn away students absolutely 100% don't know what they are talking about.

    I hear ya, PimpDaddy. But again, nothing illegal about privates offering financial incentives for athletes. And tuitions vary greatly - Valle is in the $3-4K range per year last time I asked someone with kids there, whereas some of the elites, i.e. CBC, Desmet, MICDS are in the $20K range per year. So the elite schools can give scholarships for $5K but parents are still on the hook for $15K. I actually have a niece at an all girls private in STL, and good volleyball player. I asked if she got any "scholarship" money, and yes she does, $500 off of a $15,000 per year tuition. Woo Hoo!! I would just about guess that even the best athletes at the big elite private schools are all paying the majority of their tuition tab.

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Wed, Oct 18, 2017, at 11:54 AM
  • Money definitely talks so I'm inclined to think that my opinion is probably not true. I would think that finances at Valle are probably fairly tight.

    -- Posted by ozzyandharriet on Wed, Oct 18, 2017, at 12:14 PM
  • mojo3, seems funny/odd that SG would have to recruit kids "in their own district" to come there!

    -- Posted by semo7178 on Thu, Oct 19, 2017, at 8:06 AM
  • Does anybody still like to compete? I'm sure there are some fishy things going on but man... Never thought things would get this serious. Forfeiting games, really? I'm not that far removed from high school, I remember having to play against schools like this is fball and bball. My coaches were the type of guys to run you in the ground if they heard you mention unfairness of the situation/games.

    Reality check... nothing in this life is fair. I know that may be difficult to understand for some, but if you live life across the tracks, one of the first things you learn is that life isn't fair. NOW, that doesn't make it right to not follow and abide by the rules. BUT, as the opposition, that's not your job to convict the other team of cheating. Your job is to break down film, figure out tendencies, and prepare your team to the best of your abilities. Let mshhaa handle all of that elgibility stuff, even if they don't do a great job at it. Frankly, it sounds real weak that coaches have been deciding not to play that game. Can't help but feel like there are players on those teams that wanted the challenge. They may have known they would be beat, but they wanted to see what they were made of. It's hard to believe that all players on a team are patting their coaches on the back from saving them from an "unfair" matchup. What everybody is saying about these schools, I'm sure is very similar to what NFL teams say about the Patriots. Accept those difficult challenges, those are the ones that mold you for life!!

    -- Posted by 24/7 champ on Thu, Oct 19, 2017, at 8:39 AM
  • ^^^^^I like this guy!

    -- Posted by blue recruiter on Thu, Oct 19, 2017, at 8:43 AM
  • 24/7 Champ, really? You think cheating ACTUAL cheating is the same or equalivant to the rumors of New England? Your coach was trying to keep your head up. That’s not really a excuse for actually doing something wrong. Do you apply that to all of life? Were you a outraged Trump supporter when Hillary was accusing Trump of having Russia Aid his victory, and it was rigged because she won the popular vote? For one of many examples? Just because bad things happen, doesn’t mean you turn a blind eye to all things that could be prevented from happening. That’s truly stupid. Regardless of how well my analogy is understood. You get the point. Come on now.

    -- Posted by Jesuscheist23 on Thu, Oct 19, 2017, at 9:36 AM
  • The only part that you stated that correct is the forfeit. That’s not a proper solution to their anger. If that’s truly why they did.

    -- Posted by Jesuscheist23 on Thu, Oct 19, 2017, at 9:37 AM
  • Mofootballfan

    1. I most definitely am not a Trump/Hillary supporter, or even keep up with politics much for that matter. All I know is that Trump curses a lot, says rude things, and doesn't like sports. Haha . I'm sure Hillary isn't better but... anyway

    2. I agree, your analogy was very difficult to understand. I went to college but obviously I wasn't an English major. Your rhetoric went right over my head. That's my bad.

    3. The point I was trying to make with New England is that somebody is always going to have the upper hand in life. And sometimes that's not you. But you have to deal with it. What is griping/complaining about it on message boards really going to do? Voice your frustration? I'm sure mshhaa is reviewing our posts, on the brink of suspending all schools involved, right?

    4. DEAL WITH IT! Like I've already said, life is not fair. Never will be. As much as you want people to play fair and by the rules, it will never happen. We may as well get over it and start teaching our football teams to beat those heavily favored teams. My coaches weren't trying to keep my head up lol they had high expectations and expected success regardless of who lined up across from us.

    -- Posted by 24/7 champ on Thu, Oct 19, 2017, at 11:20 AM
  • I get your point and agree they shouldn't forfeit, play the game and give it your best. but also don't turn a blind eye to the corruption - I believe famous quote says “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

    -- Posted by thatDude on Thu, Oct 19, 2017, at 11:29 AM
  • Corruption??

    There are many corrupt things that go on in this country that gets a blind eye turned toward it. I could rant but won't. But the corruption in this country is killing people. While "good men" do nothing. Evil triumphs when innocent people get killed, not when a coach recruits football players to, possibly, give them a better future. Even if they cheat, call it cheating or unfairness or whatever... I'm not going to dare compare it to corruption. High School football corrupt, unbelievable.

    -- Posted by 24/7 champ on Thu, Oct 19, 2017, at 11:42 AM
  • You can never have enough pages of pictures celebrating National String Cheese Day.

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Thu, Oct 19, 2017, at 7:17 PM
  • 24/7 - corruption in the simplest definition is: dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power.

    Your talking about totally different things when you speak of violence/killing - that's just evil. So your telling me there are no dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power within the confines of high school football? wake up, its there, it has always been there, it will always be there. - the point of this thread is people are tired of it and looking for a solution to it - best of luck to them!

    -- Posted by thatDude on Fri, Oct 20, 2017, at 11:12 AM
  • 24/7

    The answer to wrong doing isn’t to just let it go if something can be done. You are not very intelligent on this matter. Sorry sir. Move along now.

    -- Posted by Jesuscheist23 on Sat, Oct 21, 2017, at 9:24 AM
  • That Dude- Yes there are people that get away with things, that's not your/my job to find those people, unless we work for mhssha. Tired of it? I know times are changing but...winning takes care of everything. Guarantee if the team you cheer on had been beating these teams, nobody bats an eye. Maybe you don't even cheer on a specific team. But if you think one day we will live in a society where everybody follows the rules in, of all things, high school football... let me know when we get there. You have a better chance in winning if you just worry about getting your team to prepare scheme and develop your players to the best of your abilities to help you have the best chances of success.

    Mofootball- you are no closer to doing something about it than you were last week, or the week before. That's truth. If you could throw somebody in jail for this matter, you probably would. Let me know when cheating is completely cured, I will have to order a statue to help me declare you the founding father of "No More Cheating/Recruiting/Unfairness in high school sports."

    -- Posted by 24/7 champ on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 8:28 AM
  • 24/7 - MSHSAA doesn't have a detective department. It is up to fellow MSHSAA members to police ourselves and report blatant violations. MSHSAA doesn't employ people to go around looking for cheaters.

    You must be a supporter of a private school, because I always love the "just get better" response. Trinity has 6 legitimate D I football players on their team. And Trinity and Lutheran North are NOT cheating, they are fortunate to have separate rules with MSHSAA. How many years do you think a small town rural Class 2 school like Scot City or Kelly is going to have even 1 legitimate D I player, let alone 6 on the same team? The problem lies with MSHSAA not having the guts to say that players transferred for athletic reasons and force the players to sit out 365 days. You can't fault the private schools that are simply taking advantage of rules that are in place.

    Your response that cheating is going to happen regardless so there is nothing anybody can do, let the cheaters go on breaking the rules, and just worry about your own team is also sending the wrong message to kids -that message being "Let injustice prevail and don't take a stance on doing the right thing in our society, even with something as insignificant as high school sports." I would rather be setting the example to kids to stand up for what is right and and don't be afraid of taking a stand when you see something wrong in our society."

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 9:20 AM
  • Bogey Man - brings up a good point that no body understands. MSHSAA doesn't do anything until something is reported. Either a school "SELF REPORTS"(joke), formal complaint, etc.... they don't just do something, unless its initiated by someone or something.

    -- Posted by thatDude on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 9:28 AM
  • You say take a stance. You mean like Colin Kapernick...? Bet most of you disagree with that stance but you will take a stance on something like this. Not convicting you Bogey, but those that protest this situaton also probably feel some type of way about Colin Kap taking his stance. Funny how that works. Sorry to get off topic, but I seen the word "stance" and had to take advantage. haha

    And I disagree about what you say on Mshsaa. It may not be called a detective department, but they will send people out to your schools to make sure students are living with relatives that they say they are living with. Maybe they aren't consistent but I've seen mshsaa shut down a situation or two. Going to keep that confidential, not trying to embarrass/diminish schools.

    I played for a public school in Southeast Missouri. Most definitely not a private school, I promise. BUT, I do remember we had to beat 2-3 private schools a year just to make it to state. Every time my season ended, I never cried about rules. I just accepted that I got beaten by the better team, and that I needed to work with my team/coaches in the off-season to get better. I know that's cliche, but I believe you have to control what you can control. Can't control what every opponent does, but you can control what you do.

    -- Posted by 24/7 champ on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 9:45 AM
  • Sorry, I always believed in respecting the flag even when I disagree with our government.

    Again, MSHSAA does NOT investigate unless a school makes a formal complaint first.

    Again, your response to do nothing when you see something wrong offers no solution to the problem.

    To each his own, I guess.

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 10:31 AM
  • Whats your solution Bogey Man, Im interested. What should MSHSAA do to level the playing fields?

    -- Posted by swampdaddy on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 10:34 AM
  • MSHSAA doesn't care! Blue Springs violated contact days and still got to keep their state championship a couple years ago. Probably why Hayti thought it was okay to also ignore contact rules and hold an "illegal" scrimmage this year. I don't fault them one bit- if rules aren't going to be enforced why not use that to make your team better. Is it right? Nope, but Blue Springs is still your 2013-14 State Champs, so MSHSAA says its not wrong just as long as that money keeps following to Columbia.

    -- Posted by RollGreenWave on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 11:19 AM
  • Researched several states....

    Tennessee system - separate private and public playoffs, still play each other during regular season - (for MO as an example in basketball, 4 classes for public and 2 for privates. The number of classes for each would depend on the number of schools participating.)

    Arkansas system - no multiplier, bump up all privates 1 class based on enrollment.(What I hate about Arkansas is they have 8 classes for basketball - too many).

    Indiana system - not exactly sure on all the details, private and public together (not sure on a multiplier), but if you win state 2 years in a row, you are bumped up one class regardless of private and public. There are different rules for things such as dropping back down after a 2 year cycle if you don't advance past districts. Not sure on all the details, but I know it forces teams that dominate a class, regardless of private or public, to move up a class at least for a 2 year cycle.

    I just think the 1.35 multiplier is useless - it doesn't effect some privates, and some schools dominate their sport every year that should be playing up a class.

    I personally have always favored separate championships simply because we have two groups playing with 2 different sets of rules. For any completion to be fair and equal, there has to be one set of rules for all involved.

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 11:28 AM
  • RollGreenWave - absolutely 100% agree with you. I will extend that line of thinking to the college level as well. If you knowingly cheat and get caught, then you pay a severe penalty. I really think what is happening with the FBI investigating NCAA teams is the tip of the iceberg. FBI investigation in unprecedented!! Somebody high up in government has had enough of crooked college sports. Maybe the sentiment will filter down to high school level. No more coddling programs that are notorious cheaters and giving them a time out in the corner when they are bad. I personally wish Louisville would get the death penalty in basketball.

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 11:46 AM
  • Idk how accurate it is, but I like thought of the Indiana system, bumping up a class after they've won two championships in a row. That doesn't solve your problem but makes for some good fun competition. Would have been cool watching SCC compete for class 2,3,4 championships in basketball a few years ago.

    Please don't mistake my "do nothing" as it being okay to cheat. It's just my opinion that a team is better off trying to get better to beat those teams than to report those teams so they don't have to play them. Idk the situation enough, but let's just say these teams are busted and kids have to sit out 365 days or however long. Could you imagine the can that the coach is going to open on everybody next year for making those kids sit out because that was the fair thing to do?

    I'm probably not right in the head, but I don't think it's right to punish kids in this situation. School board members, coaches that recruit, athletic directors should be punished to some degree, but not kids. Many are going to comment that it sends the message that it's okay to cheat. Wouldn't surprise me at all if some of those kids transferred to be a part of a good team. That just doesn't bother me as much as the next person. We need to teach kids that everything is fair in life, and that when something isn't fair, you do all that you can to expose the cheaters so that the playing field is equal

    -- Posted by 24/7 champ on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 12:42 PM
  • "(What I hate about Arkansas is they have 8 classes for basketball - too many)."

    Arkansas has 7 classes for football and basketball

    -- Posted by semo501 on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 1:01 PM
  • "(What I hate about Arkansas is they have 8 classes for basketball - too many)."

    Arkansas has 7 classes for all the big sports I can think of. Makes it easy to know what class everyone is in

    -- Posted by semo501 on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 1:05 PM
  • 7 classes is too many!

    -- Posted by minastirith on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 2:28 PM
  • I don't see any change in the near future in Missouri. Last vote to split was defeated 70% to 30%, and not too many favor more classes.

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Mon, Oct 23, 2017, at 7:14 PM
  • This is a tricky one for me. I understand public schools are at a huge disadvantage because they get what they get they can't recruit. I know there's some shady stuff that happens at Public Schools also but for the most part if it's a legit public school they don't stand a chance against a big St Louis school that can recruit. On the other hand when a SEMO team does beat one of these teams it's a huge win. For instance Cape against Chaminade or Jackson against Vianney both teams have a shot but probably not going to happen. I will still always root for the SEMO team

    -- Posted by Murphdogg on Tue, Oct 31, 2017, at 2:41 PM
  • Plus it sucks for teams like Valle and St. Vincent who would have to travel across the state for district games. Lots of class 2 or even class 3 and smaller private schools would more than likely drop football due to the travel costs. Not many class 1 or 2 (football wise) private schools have football, and most of the ones that do, are awful.

    -- Posted by ThadCastle on Tue, Oct 31, 2017, at 8:36 PM
  • Oh my Thad...That would stink for private schools to have to travel to face stiffer competition...

    -- Posted by IndianPride on Tue, Oct 31, 2017, at 10:07 PM
  • *

    He didn’t say anything about traveling for stiffer competition. He said “travel across the state for district games.”

    -- Posted by Captain Awesome on Tue, Oct 31, 2017, at 11:57 PM
  • Traveling across the the state for district games=stiffer competition.

    Hard to imagine how you don't understand that...

    -- Posted by IndianPride on Wed, Nov 1, 2017, at 12:42 AM
  • *

    Oh, so each and every district game is inherently more challenging than any other game. You’re right, that’s hard to imagine.

    You seem angry.

    -- Posted by Captain Awesome on Wed, Nov 1, 2017, at 6:40 AM
  • No I'm a very happy person!!😊

    -- Posted by IndianPride on Wed, Nov 1, 2017, at 7:44 AM
  • aint cheatin if mshsaa doesnt do anything about it why not bend the rules if they are going to let you. quit whining and get better

    -- Posted by steelers92 on Wed, Nov 1, 2017, at 11:31 AM
  • No way LNorth or Trinity loses to Carethersville or Malden, even if they co-oped.

    -- Posted by Jeffco Speed on Wed, Nov 1, 2017, at 11:40 AM
  • Anyone, and I mean "anyone" who cannot acknowledge the advantage of private schools not having to adhere to district lines comparable to public schools are clueless. Hypothetical (yet possible) example: 6'11" kid resides in Cape, and another in Jackson. D-1 prospect, 6'4" guard lives in Sikeston. Under present rules, all three are able to play for Notre Dame. No enrollment multiplier could offset this type advantage. Notice "recruitment" has not been mentioned; I've never thought that to be applicable, because the attraction of being able to become part of a dominant team is enough reason for the students to decide to attend N.D. without being recruited.

    -- Posted by semo7178 on Wed, Nov 1, 2017, at 12:20 PM
  • How do you figure district games equal stiffer competition? Guess Valle should drop Lamar and Ste. Gen and schedule Scott City and Crystal City.

    -- Posted by ThadCastle on Wed, Nov 1, 2017, at 12:24 PM
  • @semo7178 IF there were 6'11 kids in Cape and Jackson wouldn't they already be playing basketball at Scott County Central???

    -- Posted by RollGreenWave on Wed, Nov 1, 2017, at 12:41 PM
  • Good one, RollGreenWave! Hah!

    -- Posted by semo7178 on Wed, Nov 1, 2017, at 10:17 PM
  • Well played wave!

    -- Posted by Jesco White on Thu, Nov 2, 2017, at 6:14 PM
  • Well, I mean wave’s not wrong...

    -- Posted by ThadCastle on Fri, Nov 3, 2017, at 8:23 AM
  • I would think if private school parents can afford to pay for tuition, they can scrape enough money together for a bus ride.

    -- Posted by Bogey Man on Fri, Nov 3, 2017, at 9:17 AM
  • In regards to being a player, I don’t think this is something that has remained the same over time. I absolutely understand having a competitive spirit, and private schools having a right to function competitively, but I think as a high school student athlete, it is probably quite demoralizing to see the same school winning or being in the conference championship year after year after year. Smaller schools like Valle probably don’t see as much “recruitment” as the big STL schools that this document is talking about. Those schools, LITERALLY, have kids that come from over an hour away to go to school there. Obviously theres room for debate, but in my opinion this has grown to be quite out of hand. 20 years ago I don’t believe this was as big of an issue as it is today.

    -- Posted by EaglesBoi on Fri, Nov 3, 2017, at 10:33 AM
  • EaglesBoi, believe me, this argument (or something similar) has been going on since day one. I remember in the mid-'80's the rumors that MICDS recruits or had sons of Football Cardinals players on the team...

    -- Posted by mojo3 on Fri, Nov 3, 2017, at 11:45 AM
  • SEMO7178-I totally agree with you. I crack up at these people who downplay the advantage that the private schools enjoy. It's not all about "recruiting." The fact is, most of the time, there was not recruiting going on because those schools recruit themselves. However, as you pointed out, the clear advantage is not having to deal with the district boundaries that the public schools must adhere to. Clearly a distinct advantage. Crap, kids cross state lines ALL THE TIME!

    -- Posted by ozzyandharriet on Fri, Nov 3, 2017, at 12:00 PM
  • Yeah but it just seems to me,(and I could very well be wrong), that the efficiency levels of private schools continues to grow higher and higher. And like I said, its substantially more noticeable in the larger schools, but its like they are talking about^ the boundary lines they have create quite an unfair advantage in my opinion. And if we want to get really technical about it, my honest opinion is it destroys a lot of potential from kids coming out of nothing.

    -- Posted by EaglesBoi on Fri, Nov 3, 2017, at 12:49 PM
  • -- Posted by LHSTigerFan on Fri, Nov 3, 2017, at 2:03 PM
  • Very interesting LHS. Thank you for sharing!

    -- Posted by IndianPride on Fri, Nov 3, 2017, at 6:17 PM
  • *

    Well...I guess the forfeits cost in the end. Exactly what I predicted.

    -- Posted by Frototheheadhunter on Fri, Nov 3, 2017, at 9:42 PM

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