St. Louis Cardinals Forum: Cardinals swoon...

Posted by joefrank78 on Sat, Aug 22, 2015, at 10:48 PM:

Look like the injuries have finally caught up with the team. Offense is a dud right now. We need the Matt's back. Wong is trying to pull everything and Carpenter won't take the bat off of his shoulder till he takes two strikes right down the middle. Jon Jay could supply a spark too. One more thing would help too, whenever Matheny calls for a bunt, maybe Oquendo could act like he missed the sign. Matheny tends to call for bunts at the wrong time with the wrong people at the plate. But, I am not giving up hope, all these things, injuries, etc. might get worked out. If Waino could come back, that would give a huge lift to the team.

Replies (85)

  • Too many injuries to key folks. Itsa miracle we are where we are. Obviously our pitching is all thats been working this season.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Mon, Aug 24, 2015, at 12:03 AM
  • Are we not still the best team in baseball!!!! I guess the season is over

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Wed, Aug 26, 2015, at 9:41 PM
  • Oh, ye of little faith. "What's that you say Chicken Little? You say the sky is falling?" SMH

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Wed, Aug 26, 2015, at 11:40 PM
  • I'll say this, any Matheney doubters should be silenced after the job he's done this year. He and Lilliquist should be the co-managers and the co-MVPs of the entire league!

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Thu, Aug 27, 2015, at 11:57 AM
  • Matheny is a good manager. I'm not convinced he is the guy to lead the team to a world series victory. But on the other hand, my original post has succeeded in jinxing the team into 4 wins in a row!

    -- Posted by joefrank78 on Thu, Aug 27, 2015, at 5:43 PM
  • These guys are amazing! Go Birds!!!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Sun, Aug 30, 2015, at 9:50 PM
  • Piscotty, Grich, Heyward gonna make it tuff for Holliday to crack starting lineup haha!! Heck even Moss is startn to hit!

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Mon, Aug 31, 2015, at 1:22 AM
  • Looks like I posted this a couple of weeks early. Things better change or we can get ready for a play in game on the road.

    -- Posted by joefrank78 on Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 8:36 PM
  • Only September games count in the standings?

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 10:12 PM
  • Ask the 2011 Braves. Without their historic september collapse the world would've never heard of David Freese.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 11:19 PM
  • If the Cards starters continue to collapse, the reat of the team will surely follow. As long as the starters have spun their magic, the fuse has remained unlit. But in the last 4 of 5 games we see how pedestrian this team is without stellar startn pitchn. No secret here though, we all knew it.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Tue, Sep 8, 2015, at 11:24 PM
  • Carlos wheezed his way thru this one but kept it close, great win!! Took Lester out, WOW

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Wed, Sep 9, 2015, at 4:45 PM
  • "After further review...MLB has decided they WILL count all games from April-September for the purpose of determining post-season participants...not just a few days in September."

    Relax, Francis.

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Thu, Sep 10, 2015, at 12:11 AM
  • If any yooz guys call me Francis... I'll kill ya. Psycho from "Stripes".

    -- Posted by joefrank78 on Thu, Sep 10, 2015, at 11:01 PM
  • Lol, joefrank78. I was hoping someone would know what I was referring to. Cards do need to right the ship. Fortunately, standings remained the same after this 11-0 thrashing handed out by the Reds.

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Fri, Sep 11, 2015, at 12:22 AM
  • Cant ever take away the awesomeness of our five starters this season but it appears they are runnin outta gas as we near the finish line. Woodnt be as worrisome if we actually had some consistent hittn but that hasnt happened all season. Great season of pitchn no matter how it ends.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Fri, Sep 11, 2015, at 2:23 PM
  • I'll admit, I'm a bit of a fair weather fan. But the strikeouts and pop-ups are demoralizing. Some consistency and putting pressure on the other teams defense is needed. Things can always turn around, but they need to "bottom out" first and last night may have been the bottom. We'll see.

    -- Posted by joefrank78 on Fri, Sep 11, 2015, at 2:49 PM
  • I have to admit that I'm starting to get a bit worried. I thought the young, September-inexperienced Cubs would start to wilt a little bit this month and the playoff-stretch savy Cards would keep their distance from them and the Pirates. Cards are struggling, Pirates treading water but still moving, slowly. And the Cubs are surging. Somebody flipped the script! With all that said, even though the starters are floundering a bit now, I do believe that extra rest MM gave them will pay off. The clutch hitting will return and the Cards will rebound from this tough stretch.

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Sun, Sep 13, 2015, at 8:26 AM
  • Crossing my fingers that today's 9-2 win over the Reds is the beginning of my last post...rested staff paying off and some clutch hitting. When do they expect Holliday to return? His bat would be helpful.

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Sun, Sep 13, 2015, at 6:59 PM
  • I have pretty much been expecting all three of the top teams in the NL Central to come back to earth. I just wanted to put this out there...it kills me when the Cardinals take a BP fastball right down the middle for a called third strike. I certainly hope Piscotty (sp?) doesn't start drinking that Kool-Aid.

    -- Posted by elrod48 on Mon, Sep 14, 2015, at 1:28 PM
  • The problem, good problem, the team is facing is that Matt Adams will return to being able to play everyday in the field and Matt Holiday will be activated this three game series with the Brew Crew. The problem I foresee is where will Piscotty play? How much time will he get to play if he's on the bench? And if he sits, how can you sit our hottest hitter right now. Another problem, Mo just gave up a quality prospect for Brandon Moss. Now, I'm not advocating Moss start over Adams, which I think he should, but that's another problem. My reasoning for wanting to start Moss over Adams is the body of work of MLB experience. Adams has had his moments, case and point of Kershaw last year in the playoffs; however, he does not maintain the level of hitting for an extended period of time. Time is what we do not have. Baseball is going to be over in the next 7 weeks. If it were me, I'd go with this lineup:

    Matt Carpenter 2B

    Stephan Piscotty 3B

    Matt Holiday LF

    Jason Heyward RF

    Johnny Peralta SS

    Randal Grichuk CF

    Brandon Moss or Matt Adams or Mark Reynolds 1B

    Yadier Molina C

    Starting Pitcher

    Reason I'm saying Piscotty at 3B is because it is his naturally position. He is a better fielder in the outfield because he was a bit shakey at 3B coming up through the system. However, we have shown, ala putting Grichuk in CF without being healthy, that they want to maximize their hitting capability.

    My bench as we get into the playoffs, both 1B you do not use because two of the players can play multiple positions. Kolten Wong, Tommy Pham, and Greg Garica. You could argue possibly Peter Bourjous but knowing Matheny he'd take John Jay, who I'm not a fan of, over Peter.

    Starting pitching I'd go with and in this order:

    Michael Wacha

    Lance Lynn

    Jamie Garcia

    John Lackey

    The reason I wouldn't start Carlos Martinez is because he has the most recent experience in the bullpen.

    Bullpen:

    Rosenthal

    Broxton

    Siegrist

    Maness

    Cischek

    Chote

    Wainwright If healthy*

    -- Posted by Redsandguy on Mon, Sep 14, 2015, at 5:24 PM
  • I have way more confidence in Lackey over Lynn. I think our top four starters are Lackey/ Wacha, Garcia, Lynn

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Mon, Sep 14, 2015, at 5:32 PM
  • I can go with that one Ciri. I can't argue with you there but who's the 4th starter?

    -- Posted by Redsandguy on Mon, Sep 14, 2015, at 6:02 PM
  • Never mind I see now. I misread it. My bad Ciri! Only reason I chose Lynn at home is he's a fly ball pitcher. Lynn pitching at Possibly Chicago or Pittsburgh makes me uneasy.

    -- Posted by Redsandguy on Mon, Sep 14, 2015, at 7:02 PM
  • If my math is correct (always a big IF with me and math); Cards, Pirates and Cubs all have 17 games remaining as I type this. If Cards can go 9-8 they will finish 100-62. To catch them the Pirates and Cubs have to go 13-4 and 16-1, respectively. I feel pretty good about those odds and my math.

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Thu, Sep 17, 2015, at 1:47 AM
  • S32j20s12,

    If your math is correct, I feel pretty good about those odds as well! With this upcoming serious with the Cubs, the Cards do not have to face both Lester and Arietta. I think they'll only face Lester. We just have to go strong into the playoffs instead of chugging along. I honestly think Pham after last night made a case to be on the post season roster. As of right now I do not understand how Matheny could take Jay to the playoffs the way he's hit since coming back.

    -- Posted by Redsandguy on Thu, Sep 17, 2015, at 3:48 PM
  • *

    Cardinals have at least clinched a playoff berth!

    -- Posted by cker23 on Sat, Sep 19, 2015, at 10:10 PM
  • Cubs or Pirates in the first round....what is your choice of poison? I would prefer the Pirates. The Cubs are hungry and have Arietta. I DO believe our pitchers are as good as anyones. GO CARDINALS....bring on the playoffs.

    -- Posted by elrod48 on Mon, Sep 21, 2015, at 8:34 AM
  • We need to win the division and have Cole shutout the Cubs so we can get the Pirates. We're cooked. I love our pitching for a regular season, but not a playoff series.

    -- Posted by BabeBaseball on Mon, Sep 21, 2015, at 9:49 AM
  • Putting together the playoff roster is going to be very interesting. What starter goes to the bullpen, who starts in the OF. who makes up your bench. Don't think I've ever seen a team with the best record in baseball go into the post season with so many questions. Now we have to wait on news about Yadi. Don't really see these questions being cleared up in the next 2 weeks. Shoot even our bullpen will have questions.

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Mon, Sep 21, 2015, at 11:01 AM
  • SP- Wacha, Lackey, Garcia, Lynn

    MR- Siegrest, Choate, Belisle, Maness, Socolovich, Villanueava

    SU- Martinez

    CL- Rosenthal

    C- Molina/Easley and Cruz

    1B- Moss, Reynolds

    2B- Wong, Garcia

    SS- Peralta

    3B- Carpenter

    OF- Holliday, Grichuk, Heyward, Piscotty, Pham

    This would be my roster and Piscotty would start at 1B every game and Lynn and Martinez would be somewhat interchangable

    -- Posted by BabeBaseball on Mon, Sep 21, 2015, at 12:35 PM
  • Looks pretty good to me Babe but MM loves his vets and Jay will be part of the team. Agree that Lynn will get the nod for the same reason and to me C Marti is our 2nd best starter behind Lackey right now. 2 weeks to go hopefully some of these questions will work themselves out.

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Mon, Sep 21, 2015, at 1:49 PM
  • Marti might be 3rd behind Garcia. Garcia has pitched VERY well this season even though his record doesn't indicate it. I do believe you need to start Wacha and Lynn at home because they are fly ball pitchers. Lacky and Garcia are the next. IMO though the order would be Lacky, Garcia, Martinez, and then Wacha. I know this totally goes against what I just said, but that is order of dominance right now

    -- Posted by Redsandguy on Tue, Sep 22, 2015, at 9:11 AM
  • What are we gonna do about Holliday? Love the guy but do we waste a spot for him on tourney roster? He's obviously veryvery rusty. Tough call for MM cuz he's very loyal to his vets. At this point Reynolds and Moss may be better bench options than Holliday.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Tue, Sep 22, 2015, at 10:25 AM
  • I'd take him. Look at my post about 14 posts ago. That's the core I'd take. Maybe flip flops one positions but I'd still take that core.

    Hey Waino is BACK!!!! We will be tough to beat come playoffs. If we can score 3+ runs the ball game is over.

    -- Posted by Redsandguy on Tue, Sep 22, 2015, at 12:45 PM
  • Holliday didnt look good at all pinch hittn lasnite and i dont see him gittn many at bats these last 12 games. Timing could be a major issue with him. Obviously history says he's by far the better hitter than any of our bench players. But will he be able to get his timing back?

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Tue, Sep 22, 2015, at 12:54 PM
  • When they show Holliday going through his running exercises on Fox he looks to be running about 80 to 85% I just don't think he is going to make it back in time!

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Tue, Sep 22, 2015, at 9:08 PM
  • I just do not see them leaving Holliday off the roster. Am I saying his timing is not off? No way! He looked terrible in the few at bats he's had. However, who would you take on the team over him? John Jay? Heck his swing is just as bad. I just rather take a chance on Holliday with his big bat potential then take a non threat like John Jay or Pete Kozma.

    Heck our starting pitching only needs to go 4 innings now. Haha. Siegrist, Manness, Broxton, Ceishck, Waino, and Rosey....if they can pitch up to just their average, it's looking like the World Series goes through StL.

    -- Posted by Redsandguy on Wed, Sep 23, 2015, at 11:34 AM
  • Lynn can barely make it thru 3 these days unfortunately

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Wed, Sep 23, 2015, at 3:44 PM
  • The Pirates just refuse to lose!!! Looks like we are going to have to go into Pitt. and beat them

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Sat, Sep 26, 2015, at 1:40 PM
  • *

    Carlos Martinez out for the rest of the season with a shoulder strain..

    -- Posted by cker23 on Sat, Sep 26, 2015, at 3:58 PM
  • With all these injuries and missed time by key players who were projected as starting 8 or starting staff, and STILL 98 wins with six games to go - MM has got to get a vote or two for MOY, doesn't he?

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Mon, Sep 28, 2015, at 8:03 AM
  • Despite the unbelievably devasting loss lasnite to a team 100 games behind us, MM should win in a landslide.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Mon, Sep 28, 2015, at 10:34 AM
  • I agree with you ciri. I agree 100%. But if I were a betting man I'd put my money on Maddon. He seems to be the managerial darling this season.

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Mon, Sep 28, 2015, at 8:38 PM
  • Another one bites the dust...hope Piscotty is ok.

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Mon, Sep 28, 2015, at 8:38 PM
  • Yah i bet they give it to Maddon which i must say isnt a major upset. But geez MM has won consistently every year and u can see him gettn better each year and he duzznt hafta resort to bringn in elephants and giraffes to motivate his players, ifya know what i mean.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Tue, Sep 29, 2015, at 10:28 AM
  • MM gets my vote though I am prejudice. Maddon lost my respect when he called the Cards vigilanties and then went out and hit 3 of our guys the next day. Not to mention they started it hitting Holliday in the head. So we are suppose to believe him but not our guys.

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Wed, Sep 30, 2015, at 11:37 AM
  • Maddon will win. He is the darling of the press.

    -- Posted by joefrank78 on Wed, Sep 30, 2015, at 12:54 PM
  • Agreed. The press is run by the Chicago mobsters. MM hasnt a chance.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Wed, Sep 30, 2015, at 2:48 PM
  • Plus, when the Cardinals win, its expected, not a surprise at all. But when the Cubs win, it's "Stop the presses", OMG, could this be the year? The Cardinals wll win or lose with their bullpen. If the guys are eager to pitch, not afraid, and attack hitters, they will be OK. If they pitch scared, it's not going to end well.

    -- Posted by joefrank78 on Wed, Sep 30, 2015, at 6:19 PM
  • *

    Can I hear win # 100????? GO CARDS! #WeOwnTheCentral

    -- Posted by SHS BUM 21 on Wed, Sep 30, 2015, at 8:05 PM
  • Great year, great fun

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Thu, Oct 1, 2015, at 10:16 PM
  • Concerning MOY, Maddon will probably win it with his ace being a strong Cy Young candidate (Arrieta), with ROY (Bryant), and someone who may get a few votes for MVP (Rizzo). MM's ace was sidelined in April (Waino), closest think to a ROY candidate missed significant playing time with a couple of injuries (Grichek), and NO ONE hitting .300...but his team will have the best record in MLB. Doesn't make sense to me.

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Fri, Oct 2, 2015, at 3:14 AM
  • I have to admit, I have no idea how three meaningless shutouts are going to affect the Cards in the first round of the playoffs. It's probably a better sign than scoring 10 runs per game. Expectations are low and easy to exceed.

    -- Posted by joefrank78 on Mon, Oct 5, 2015, at 6:06 PM
  • Wow cant believe Moss is in and Adams is out. Ive not much confidence in Moss.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Thu, Oct 8, 2015, at 4:49 PM
  • As usual with the Cardinals, this series will come down to the first inning of the first game. If the Cubs are ahead after the first inning tonight, we are in trouble. If we are tied or ahead, I like our chances.

    -- Posted by joefrank78 on Fri, Oct 9, 2015, at 3:15 PM
  • I like our chances!

    -- Posted by joefrank78 on Sat, Oct 10, 2015, at 11:27 AM
  • 1 down 2 to go. Go Birds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Sat, Oct 10, 2015, at 11:38 AM
  • Great season!! Always tough when eliminated!

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Tue, Oct 13, 2015, at 7:45 PM
  • I have to wonder how far a healthy Cardinal team would have gone this season? I know injuries are a part of any sport but didn't Waino look great in his two innings in the series finale? A healthy Waino starting a game 4 might have gotten a game 5 in StL. We'll never know.

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Wed, Oct 14, 2015, at 2:45 AM
  • I just read two articles about Cards-Cubs series. One quoted Matheny refusing to use the rash of injuries the Cardinals weathered this season and postseason for them not advancing in playoffs - total class.

    The second article said that Chicago can now forgive Steve Bartman for what he did to the city...I think the role of giving forgiveness is in the wrong order in the article - classless.

    -- Posted by s32j20s12 on Wed, Oct 14, 2015, at 2:58 AM
  • The Cards have the youth and money to stick with the Cubs for the near future. Can't wait for the hot stove season!

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Wed, Oct 14, 2015, at 9:05 AM
  • Pitching peaked midseason and faltered at the end, mainly Wacha and Lynn. Hard to win in playoffs with only Lackey pitchn well amongst the starters.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Wed, Oct 14, 2015, at 9:37 AM
  • Lot of things went wrong, but basically all the injuries finally caught up with them. C Marti and Yadi were killers and actually Holliday getting healthy enough to play hurt as it put him in the lineup and one of the young studs on the bench

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Thu, Oct 15, 2015, at 9:03 AM
  • As predicted by me on Sept. 30, Maddon would win MOY. Not really a stretch there.

    -- Posted by joefrank78 on Tue, Nov 17, 2015, at 6:33 PM
  • Nope just like getting elected to Middle School student council. Seldom does the qualified person win in a popularity contest.

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Wed, Nov 18, 2015, at 11:33 AM
  • Itsa sham, plus everyones jealous of Cards success

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Thu, Nov 19, 2015, at 9:40 AM
  • When will we as Cardinals fans receive a XMAS present? I don't even see anything under the tree. Bah humbug. Broxton, Pena, and Jeyrko are like a box of rocks.

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Sat, Dec 12, 2015, at 3:48 PM
  • Yup Theo has bought himself another championship, a la Boston. He raided the Yanks and now he's raided us. In the end it aint about making good draftpicks or developing players, its about free agents and who's got the biggest bank acct.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Mon, Dec 14, 2015, at 12:49 PM
  • Rizzo, Bryant, Schwarber, Arrieta, Russell, and Soler were all drafted or traded for.

    -- Posted by Razor on Mon, Dec 14, 2015, at 12:58 PM
  • Also not sure why Heyward left STL. He was offered more money to stay here.

    -- Posted by Razor on Mon, Dec 14, 2015, at 1:00 PM
  • They dont win a ring without Lester, Lackey, and Heyward. Another bought and paid for WS for Theo.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Mon, Dec 14, 2015, at 3:18 PM
  • Cirithungol17, you discussed in another forum how they would need to purchase starting pitching, looks like they have gone out and done so, unfortunately for us. The Cards need Leake. I have no doubt in my mind we'd turn him into a great pitcher. Him, in addition to Martinez, Wacha, and Waino would be a pretty tough 1-4, in my humble opinion.

    -- Posted by Razor on Wed, Dec 16, 2015, at 10:52 AM
  • I agree. Im just jealous that the Cubbies have raided us and we seem to be doing nuttn about it. Holliday WILL get hurt again this season guaranteed. And Garcia cant make it thru half a season. This wooda been a good time to overspend on a lites out startn pitcher and get a Gordon or a Chris Davis. But Mo has already said it aint happnin.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Wed, Dec 16, 2015, at 12:08 PM
  • Molina goes under the knife and MO hopes he'll be ready by opening day. Hope is not a strategy

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Thu, Dec 17, 2015, at 11:00 AM
  • And plus he looked absolutely miserable at the plate even BEFORE he got hurt.

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Thu, Dec 17, 2015, at 2:11 PM
  • He has been going down hill for 2+ years offensively.

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Thu, Dec 17, 2015, at 4:00 PM
  • I think Cargo in the outfield would be a nice addition and put Piscotty at 1st and then Holliday, Grichuk, Gonzales in the outfield. But the price we'd have to give up is likely too much for Mozeliak to be willing enough to do so...

    -- Posted by bluffguy697 on Thu, Dec 24, 2015, at 9:50 AM
  • Not a huge fan of Brandon Moss, and I am not sure how I feel about Matt Adams currently.

    -- Posted by bluffguy697 on Thu, Dec 24, 2015, at 9:51 AM
  • If we trade for Cargo I would think one of our young OFs would have to be part of the package. Not sure that would make sense.

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Thu, Dec 24, 2015, at 11:30 AM
  • We should clearly offer Adams/Grichuk/Piscotty and Marco for Cargo

    -- Posted by BabeBaseball on Thu, Dec 24, 2015, at 7:20 PM
  • If you are talking about offering all 4 for Cargo that would be crazy. Our surplus of Ofs is not what it used to be.

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Fri, Dec 25, 2015, at 10:40 AM
  • 7 runs in 3 games and the biggest FA pitcher in team history walking in a run in the first inning. The plug in a guy approach seems to have really jump started the offense too. Good job Mo! Good job Matheny!

    -- Posted by Razor on Thu, Apr 7, 2016, at 9:35 AM
  • 41 runs in next 4 games!! Mo for President!

    Ok I know its way to early to get excited or write em off but the youngsters have potential. I still think the Cubs gonna finish 8-10 games in first place but maybe we can sneak into the wildcard, who knows?

    -- Posted by cirithungol17 on Wed, Apr 13, 2016, at 9:58 AM
  • This early in the year with the Cubs coming to town and the Blues being in Chicago makes for great stuff. Go Cards and Blues. Put the hurt to all Chicago fans

    -- Posted by heshootshescores on Mon, Apr 18, 2016, at 11:58 AM

Respond to this thread

Posting a comment requires free registration: