Well we made it, whew!!!! Four years in a row in playoffs for first time ever, i think. Nothing will surprise me this postseason, whether it be sweeping or getting swept. Just one of those seasons.
I love talking sports and this has been a buncha fun talkin Redbirds all season long. Every poster has had good info and insights to share. Thanks to all for some very enjoyable chat!!
Waino vs Kershaw what a game #1 go Birds
I am pumped for this series. I can only hope the our manager makes baseball decisions, not decisions he thinks will look good in the press.
Ya gotta admit Matheny is making some decisions that earlier he wouldnt have. He did remove Rosey in the 9th several games ago before he had a chance to blow the save and it worked! Ive said it before, he's just finished only his third regular season, still has a lotta learning to do, but by golly he's becoming a seasoned postseason skipper pretty quickly! A perfect 3 for 3 so far! And im glad he rested Waino yesterday, Waino was glad he rested Waino yesterday! Matheny makes mistakes but my point is he's a better manager now than he was when he started.
He continues to get better and I think the biggest thing is that his players trust him. I know there is no way to measure such a statement. but I stand by it. You don't accomplish what he has without the support of your players.
Except for that one night where he left Neshek I'm to give up 3 runs and send the game to extra innings. He needs to be consistent in not allowing himself attachment to a pitcher in a tough situation
He does seem to be loyal to the point where it hurts the team at times, but I think he is getting a tad better
Who should be on the post-season roster for this series? In the bullpen? On the bench? How many catchers? For example, do you keep Kozma because he has a good history against Kershaw and maybe start him in Game 1 at 2nd base? Do you keep both Taveras and Grichuk? So many intriguing decisions to be made.
I do not disagree with u on the Neshek game, bunk. All i can say is that it seemed like it took only 8 pitches and poof! The three run lead evaporated.
Man the roster choices will be interesting. I tell u what, Greenwood looked impressive yesterday. Masterson is an obvious non-roster maker. I thought Choate mite get left off but he's done well lately. Hard to believe Siegrist will probly get left off, tho i mite be wrong about that.
No way you can include Kozma due a SSS. Unless you keep Desclaso off. You have to keep off Siegerist I think and I would keep OT and Grichuk for the platoon and PH power potential for both
Do you keep Wacha in the bullpen for long relief? Given his performance in the postseason last year, I would say yes, but he wasn't coming off an injury then and he has been shaky since coming off the DL. I agree with leaving Siegrist off the roster.
The playoff roster I expect
Kozma or Pierzynski
I personally would just leave off Descalso or Cruz and take both Pierzynski and Kozma but I don't think Mike is smart enough to do that. If I left off someone egregious, forgive me. I thought this out on the fly.
I think we have to give Matheny some credit Sideline. He has been to the playoffs all four years he's been the manager.
On another note, Sideline, we've posted our first two ranking threads called Touchdown Top 10. If you get a chance, check it out and let me know what you think. The new one should be out tomorrow.
My guess is Kozmo starts at 2nd base Friday
Matheny wins 90 games and the division all while losing the team MVP for roughly 25% of the season, loses 40% of his starting rotation for most of the season, starts a rookie at second for most of the year and platoons center and right field for the whole season, but he isn't smart enough to know how to coach in the majors?? Sounds reasonable.
How many games would you have won under these circumstances Mr. Sideline Armchair Manager?? 95? 100? 110? Maybe less?
Unashamedly purloined from the P-D:
"Jonjay's defensive turnaround was pretty dramatic. In 2013, Jay ranked 32nd among MLB center fielders with an abysmal minus 10 in Defensive Runs Saved. This season he finished 13th at the position with 5 Defensive Runs Saved -- a positive swing of 15 defensive runs from last year.
Jay finished with 2.6 Wins Above Replacement (WAR) which was nearly a win better than his 2013 WAR."
Jay-Bourjy-Grichuk pretty stout def combo in late innings, dudes can cover every incha the outfield.
The concept of winning due to talent in spite of the manager being a buffoon isn't lost on some of us. The Royals did that last night with Ned Yost doing everything in his power to cost his team the game. Matheny is not a great in-game decision maker and gets too attached to "veterans" who have been on the roster since he's been there (like Descalso who is redundant and useless).
Yeah I watched that entire game last night and I could have killed Ned Yost. 3 straight times royals get the lead man on sacrifice and end up stranding the man on second or third. Shocking once he let the hitters hit and the baserunners steal the win came.
So now they have enough talent to make up for Matheny's "stupidity" AFTER they make the playoffs, but back a few months ago, when you were preaching the sabremetrics bible, they didn't have enough talent to field a contending team? All you had to say is less, you would win less games under the same circumstances. Bandwagon fans are so much fun!
They've always had enough talent. It is how that talent has been utilized that has been my gripe all season and continues to be. I'm one of the few people on here who never thought they were going to miss the playoffs even in the doldrums because talent always comes through especially when their is a depth to it with a season as long as baseball's is. I've watched or listened to at least 120 of the 162 games played this season by the Cards. The last thing I could be called is a bandwagoner.
When anyone with a saber metrics bent ever call the Cardinals non-contenders. Saber guys were the ones arguing that the brewers and the cardinals offense would regress to the mean and the Cardinals would comeback.
In the AL with no need to PH for pitchers, how do you end up with a dude hitting 4 for his last 44, pinch hitting with the game on the line? Im still trying to figure that one out??? Very entertaining game tho!!
Sorry for the side note but I have to ask Sideline...you gonna to the Grove this weekend?
I'll be there, Attaboy. It is the one weekend I know can make it down before November. It is going to be a zoo and I can't wait.
It is easy to nit pick certain moves that MM makes on a daily basis, but then you have to accept the facts that he makes good choices every day also. The accumulations of his choices must end up on the positive side or their would be no 3 trips to the playoffs. I too scream at the TV sometimes with some of his decisions although I don't think he ever hears me no matter how loud I yell.
Can't say Zoo sideline. The Zoo is in columbia. Say, it's gonna be crazy. The only time it was a Zoo in recent years is when Mizzou came down there last year and beat Ole Miss. That was a Zoo
I'm going down Friday to participate in my first Grove Run with my son, who's going to school there. Plan is to set up the tent as close to the Game Day stage as possible. It will be a Zoo...not a Zou. Sorry to hijack the thread.
Enjoy it Attaboy. It is great fun. Bunk is coming down with me. Our group is setting up in the Circle this weekend I think. We are normally near the Union but have been displaced by all the Gameday stuff but I can't complain. Also, I'm not in charge with setting it up so I just get to show up and enjoy. Hah.
Oh the joys of having someone else set up the tents before you get there. Gives us plenty of time to "recover" from the previous evening
Yeah I also disagree with you sideline. We all have done the same thing with Tony LaRussa, second guessing his decisions over the years. But he is a Hall of Fame Manager. Not saying Matheny is by any means but he is NOT stupid. That is for sure.
There is a lot more that meets the eye when managing a team. Things we dont see. Sure there are decisions that I can look back on and scratch my head a bit. But you have to understand that its partially player execution too. Maybe the plan is sound but the players dont execute it accordingly.
Let's take the Billy Butler play last night. Would I have done sent him in that situation? Probably Not. But it wasnt a bonehead decision. The player didnt execute it to plan. So it makes everyone look bad.
The Royals plan was clearly to be aggressive on the base paths last night (tied a postseason record). It played a big part in the reason why they won.
It was an 0-2 count with 2 outs and runners on the corners. Yes you have arguably your best hitter at the plate. But he is also facing a lefty. What are the chances he gets a hit there? Not real good. Been my experience when you take chances in high pressure games it puts even more pressure on the defense and it usually is a positive result.
In saying all of that, I didnt mind the call, but Butler left too early. And Hosmer did not leave when he should have. Point being, poor player execution.
Im just saying Matheny is better than you give him credit for. There is a reason he got the job with no experience than other candidates.
He was supposed to malleable and hold respect with veterans he had helped mentor. If the plan is sound than yes but you have to prove the plan is sound first. If the reasoning is well I'm the manager so nuanced understanding of the emotions of the players it's ridiculous and an appeal to authority fallacy and if it's because of tradition and not logical it's not sound.
I think most baseball managers stink when it comes to making in game decisions and deserve little credit for the success of their team on a day to day basis. It is all about the talent of a team. Their role is magnified so much in the playoffs though and Matheny throwing things at the wall and hoping they stick isn't going to cut it. When La Russa made an in game move during the playoffs, he had a reason for it. He played matchups with lefty-righty splits. He had a quick hook. We didn't always agree with every move he made but there seemed to be a logical reasoning behind his decisions. Matheny just trots Allen Craig out everyday until his general manager is forced to deal him just to get him out of the lineup. He lobbies for Daniel Descalso to be on the roster over Pete Kozma even though Descalso is one of the worst fielders yet has only a slightly better bat. He warms up Trevor Rosenthal every single day and brings him in when the team is up three even though this is the fourth day he's pitched in a row simply because "he's our closer and it is a save situation" which means absolutely nothing because it is just an arbitrary stat made up a long time ago and tires him out in the process. He then won't go get him when he is clearly laboring and will let him blow the game "because he's our guy in the ninth." Kolten Wong struggles for two days after Mark Ellis comes back from the DL and is deemed to have problems with his swing mechanics and benched before being sent to Memphis for a month where, shockingly, it is proven his swing is fine. Randal Grichuk makes a return in September and is hot for a week and Oscar Taveras suddenly loses all playing time even though Grichuk can't hit righties at all and has never shown a propensity to. Matheny calls bunts way too often especially sacrifice bunts which are proven to not increase the probability of scoring multiple runs and really don't do much to improve the probability of scoring one run. I could keep going. I think he's stubborn and a buffoon and costs the Cardinals much more than he benefits them. If you disagree, that's fine but I've seen enough evidence with my own two eyes. Saying that he has made the playoffs is being results oriented and it just assumes because a good thing happened that the best process was used when a game like baseball relies so much on talent on the field and luck. The little part he has in the success or failure of the team magnifies in the playoffs when the manager has only five or seven games to work with instead of 162 where mistakes can be hidden.
People who want it to be shown that sacrificing doesn't work my example is exhibit A and the royals last night. It worked once because Dyson is extremely fast and stole 3rd on his own. If he hadn't he probably doesn't score and the game ends. You just can't give away outs for what is essential a negative influence on your run scoring capabilities.
Mr. Sideline Starter, "what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
I think once you get an impression in ur mind about a manager its hard to change gears. Everything the Mayor said about Matheny is true but those are are only listing his negatives. So maybe those ten or so negatives are balanced out by twenty positives, who knows? In my humble opinion, a bad manager would not have gotten this team into the playoffs. I think he does a pretty good job handling his starting pitchers. I think he learned to stop using Rosey so much and he did yank him in the ninth several games ago. This team was almost last in the league in run production for at least two thirds of season. We ended up outscoring our opponents by only SIXTEEN runs this season. YIKES!! My conclusion is this: i think i could list as many or most likely more positives about Matheny than negatives. Bottom line: the players enjoy playing for him! A happy player has a better chance than an unhappy player ( see Rolen and Rasmus). The players trust him. He is learning and making adjustments. I was not a huge TLR fan til his last few years, i thought he acted brain-dead and way over- managed. Boy was i wrong. I think Matheny is smart enough to become every bit as good as TLR. But not this year or next year. And remember, Matheny has not had the luxury TLR had of trotting out the best player in the history of baseball over a ten year period, El Hombre. An incredibly humble opinion on my part!
By the way, i thought sending Wong down was a positive decision. He'd completely lost confidence and was pretty much abysmal at the plate as well as in the field. He looked like a new man when he came back, much much more confident. So i do disagree with a few of the negative assessments. I also didnt notice Matheny bunting way above the norm. And if he did, maybe its cuz the hitting was so lame, nothing but singles mosta the year.
Good perspective Ciri.
Talent doesnt always win. That's the beauty of the playoffs anything can happen.
I think this year will be fun. Once again, very few outside cardinal nation is giving the birds a chance. We will see. Would love to beat up on Kershaw.
I know it doesnt mean a whole lot. But it makes me smile looking at these numbers. Hopefully it does to you to.
Career playoff numbers:
Kershaw: 1-3 with a 4.23 ERA in 5 starts.
Wainwright: 4-3 with a 2.53 ERA in 9 starts with 4 decisive saves, one of which being a game 7 WS game.
Rather, NLCS game. Sorry.
Yah weve gotten to Lance a few times, but dang he's good. Hey we beat the Brooklyn boys last year, how bout a repeat!!
Oops meant Clayton, not Lance
Kozma on the NLDS roster. Pierzynski, Motte, Ellis, and Siegrist left off.
I havnt an issue with those choices
Man i watched angel-kc game lasnite. Albert just doesnt seem to be anywhere near the force he was for us at the plate. His stance and his swing just look weird, not as fluid and quick as he used to be. Its just one game though and ive hardly seen him play since he left.
Holland looked absolutely wicked as kc's closer!
Stunner in SoCal that's all I got to say.
The Royals win 4-1 in 11 innings to take a commanding 2-0 lead in the ALDS as the series shifts back to KC. Mike Trout strikes out to end it. Can the Royals win a game in 9 innings? This is their 3rd game in row to go to extra innings.
I-70 Series baby! Cards win an impossible game. Further proof that God is a Cards fan.
Sideline and Bunk..are you ready. Grove Is packed, Cardinals got a huge win, and I'm ready for a Rebel Win.
You guys gotta somehow post a link of photos from Old Mississippi!! Go Blackbears!!
I didn't take any picks but I have a small list of things I learned this weekend:
1) There is a steep learning curve when discovering how to dismantle goal posts after not doing it for several decades.
2) When Sideline says there is a steep drop from the barricade to the field he isn't joking
3) Any team can beat any other in this league with the exception of Vandy.
4) It's never over even when the refs screw the home team out of a touchdown at the end of the half.
Haha great game!! Man the Egg Bowl needs to be renamed the Super Bowl this year!! Thats gonna be a game!
Bob Costas says the Cardinals like to throw high and inside. So I guess that makes it true.
I think Bob Costas should not talk about baseball during the broadcasts. Instead, he should tell us his opinions on domestic violence and gun control.
I take it u dont see eye to eye with babbling bobby?
Every team throws high and inside to back hitters off the plate. Doesn't make every pitcher a head hunter
Yah im amazed how whiny hitters are these days. I love seein us bust hitters in who hang over the dish. Can u imagine if we hit Gonzales? Oh my.....
Yesterday was truly a wonderful day.
Lets Go Birds!
Im nervous about Lackey
After Puig was backed off, he was pretty much useless. I am not sure if Bob Costas would agree. His pre-game prep said that the Cardinals like to throw inside to create controversy. He likes to take Botox injections in the eyes though.
Lackey pitched a great game tonight! Rosie made it interesting in the 9th but the Redbirds take Game 3! Gotta beat Kershaw again tomorrow though.
Good win. Kershaw is going on short rest tomorrow but I like the Cards chances. What can I say I'm a sucker for Wong shot odds
For once, I have to give Matheny credit. Making the fuss about the mound in the ninth to give Rosie a chance to calm down and re-focus was a great move. Great win by the Cards tonight.
Great job Lackey!!! And we overcame the bad karma of losing 3 runs due to Dodger pitchers getting hit by rockets up the middle in our last two at-bats! Wong and Carp! Wow!!
Maybe Shelby can somehow pull a Wacha from last year, the Dodgers must absolutely hate us by now!
THE CARDINALS DEVIL MAGIC LIVES
Kudos Cardinals....NLCS here we come. Now how about a 1-2-3 inning just one time Rosey?
8 more wins Birdos just 8 more wins.
In case anyone is interested, Fangraphs had a really good interview with the Cardinals scouting director Dan Kantrovitz. I've linked it below.
Congrats Birds! Somehow some way you guys seem to come through. Wow how about Kershaw? Pretty amazing.
It is an amazing thing when you consider how we have done this 3 years in a row with such an average to below average manager. (According to some on here)
Second-guessing the manager is a baseball tradition. It's always been part of the game. Matheny endures it, just as every manager does. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with questioning lineup choices and bullpen maneuvers. That's standard. The nature of baseball strategy -- with all of the moves that managers make in a game -- invites daily scrutiny.
But the object of the game is to win. As the Cardinals' roster continues to evolve and change shape, Matheny continues to win more than just about any manager in the game. So if we sometimes wonder what Mike Matheny is really good at, there's your answer.
Thanks for reading ...
9. With the ALCS starting tonight (weather permitting) with Kansas City at Baltimore, Bovada.lv is out with a set of new postseason odds. These things are fun. A few nuggets:
Most likely World Series matchup:
-- Baltimore vs. St. Louis, 9/5
-- Baltimore vs. San Francisco, 9/4
-- Kansas City vs. STL, 11/4
-- KC vs. SF, 13/4
World Series champion:
St. Louis, 13/5
San Francisco, 13/5
Kansas City 13/4
Well, another extra-inning game, another Royals win! KC takes Game 1 of the ALCS 8-6 in 10 innings.
I think Waino should be shut down. 2 postseason starts and he has not shown anything with that deadarm.
I agree Jolly, but if his defense makes a couple of plays behind him it is a much different game. If Grichuk holds on to that ball the game takes a very different direction. It would have been a high lite catch but those win pennants. Wong's error is a back breaker the guy just makes terrible mistakes at the worst times.
Waino is hurtn but he still heldm pretty well. Our normally solid defense sucked.
I just can't understand it. The cardinals unstuck the R2 button on the controller and learned how to hit dingers again. This is gonna be a crazy series.
Yadi is hurt again and Rosie was awful last night. The Redbirds were very lucky to win that one.
Yah rosey is going thru some mental anguish on the hill. When u start losin ur release point itsa helpless feeling and that little seed of doubt starts creepn in. He's tryin his hardest to overcome it but its tuff when ur fightin whats between ur ears. Ankiel went thru it and imploded, rosey hopefully can fite thru it but i hope matheny considers other alternatives, if there are any.
The homeruns are nuts! I think our last like 15 outta 16 runs have come on homers but dont quote me on that.
I don't think it's mental for Rosie. He is shot. He has no idea where that ball is going when throws it. He doesn't have enough control or command right now. Neshek needs to close and Rosie needs to be used sparingly.
Yah ur rite its probly mechanics, he's just not replicating his arm slot on every pitch. But then thats what starts creepn into ur mind, ya start thinkn about mechanics instead of throwing free and easy. Being a closer is major pressure, not for the faint of heart.
I really just think he is in a slump caused by all sorts of things. I'm really one of those guys who buys into the tangible cause. It's not hard to find a simple pattern with pitchers A) They get fatigued and their mechanics suffer trying compensate for pain or B) Their motion gets dissected enough for tells to be identified by hitters so when changing their mechanics consciously they lose some effectiveness. I think are especially evident in relievers because of SSS. Rosie is in a combo of the two which makes him hitable yet wild
Good points. The announcers were spot on lasnite, u dont see too many pitchers hittn 99mph on ankle high fastballs. That was weird cuz rosey never throws ankle high fastballs. He is truly messed up. I also wonder if him trying to throw sliders and changeups has messed up his mechanics? Mebbe he should go back to throwing heat and get back into a rhythm by stickn with one pitch? It works mitey well for Aroldis!!
How many pitches did he spike last night? He was wild and erratic. Its never good when the pitcher and catcher have no clue where the ball is going.
He can throw curve balls( it's average) and change ups( these are actually usually really good like Wacha and Marco level nasty) but he just doesn't have it. He is trying to throw heat to all 4 sections of the zone but can't control it. So basically he is a one pitch pitcher with no command. He started inexplicably experimenting with a sinker or a split finger in order to better control his fastball low in the zone. To my knowledge he has never thrown either of those pitches with any regularity. It was bizarre that Rosie, Yadi, Matheny, Lilquist, and Cruz thought that was a sound strategy and it isn't shocking to see him spike them in the dirt.
If he were a starter i could see him trying to develop four pitches. But a closer that can throw 99mph only needs at most two pitches cuz ur only out there to throw twenty or so pitches. I'd like to see him stick with fastball and slider or change. Keep it simple.
I think we can all agree here that Mike Matheny has proven in this series that he is completely inexperienced for being in the playoffs 3 straight years and mismanaged this series.
I can't agree with you Jolly. How many errors or misplayed balls that go down as errors but we all know are just bad plays (Adams twice last night, Wong in game 1)? How many called third strikess (Carpenter and Holiday in the 9th last night, Carpenter numerous times in this series) How is that on Matheny?
So, its Matheny's fault that pitchers can't throw strikes to lead off hitters? I believe it was three consecutive innings they allowed a lead off walk. Choate was bad, but he still came in an earned a "hold" in the situation last night. Gonzalez, who has been solid, looked young. Maness couldn't get the sinker to sink and hung several pitches. And its Matheny's fault that Matt Adams made two bad throws which lead to runs while looking completely clueless at first base? Those aren't on the manager. I know, I know....Players win and managers lose. Period.
Sometimes, and I know its hard to believe, sometimes the other team is just better on that given night.
Why not bring Wacha in the game instead of burning through the entire bullpen? After Choate got out of the 4th, Wacha should have been brought in, not held in reserve in case the game goes extras! You should be trying to win a game, not holding out for something that may not even happen! Heck, even letting Miller bat in the inning and then back out for the bottom half was awful managing. Miller had just gotten rocked and clearly did not hat it. I am not making excuses for Adams stupid plays, but MM should get a ton of criticism for not being a good game manager and the sooner you all wake up, the better.
The game 3 decision in leaving Choate in the game was Matheny at his best. Choate should have been gone after the leadoff walk, but he leaves him in there. The players did not perform, but the manager is supposed to put out the fires with decision making, not put gasoline on the fire.
The defense and the pitching has choked the entire series. No manager can prevent the walks and the errors. SF has outplayed us mightily, we look drained, tired and the lesser of the two teams. It happens, SF has our number, they are more solid in all area than we are.
I thought he was fine Jolly. We shouldn't arm chair manage.Cant question his decisions especially his waste of roster spot taxing and overtaxed bullpen in a single series. But the bottom line is you have 2 starters both not make it through 5 innings and not expect the bullpen to be gassed.
Leave it up to the arm chair managers to come out in full force when cards are on the brink of elimination. Matheny has made mistakes in this series, but if you are going to arm chair manage and be smarter than he is at least do it while they are winning too. Long live the bandwagon fans of the Cardinals!
Agreed hoops, this series has been a total team effort failure, the complete opposite of the LA series. The Giants are on a roll similar to Royals, aint no stoppn em. Most of this season i wouldve never even considered makn final four, but the homerun magic was a boost. We have run outta magic unfortunately.
Run outta pitchn and defense magic, to be precise
I'll take 3 NLCS and at least 1 world series (I'm not giving up for the 2nd) in the last 3 years. Not bad for a 43 year old manager.
Its so easy to sit back and pick out things you'd do different after it fails. I'd probably walked Blanco last night in the 4th. Set up a foce at home to make it an easier play. But, result was a ground ball that should've been handled and an out at the plate. Should've then turned the double play on the very next ground ball.
Should've brought in anyone but Choate last night. But oh, by the way, he got out of the 4th with no damage. Do you start Wacha instead of Miller? Maybe should've pulled Miller with a 4-1 or 4-3 lead and go to Wacha? Maybe should've pulled Lackey after he got shelled for 4 in the 1st the night before?
I think the Giants are taking great at bats. Working counts so much better than the Cardinals. Carpenter and Holiday taking called thrid strikes in the 9th??? You have to be aggressive at the plate.
Now, I'm a Matheny fan. I was a LaRussa fan. And a Whitey fan. I think Boche has done a better job this series. I'll admit it. He's playing the run game, the bunt game, creating opportunities. But the Cardinals are allowing that by poor defense, poor pithcing, poor execution. Taxed bullpen? Of course. It's late October. Everyone is tired. So do you let bullpen guys go 3, 4 innings and tax them more or do you give then less innings to keep from further taxing them? Do you bring Wacha in tonight since Waino is less than sharp? Like I said, its so easy to criticize after the fact.
Dr Bball I have always criticized the Mathenius after every dumb move but of course you ballyhooed then that I was the scum of the earth because I was arm chair managing the most successful manager in the history of ever. So lay off play both sides of the field.
I'll vouch for you Bunk. You have been critical of Matheny from the get-go. So what? We all have different philosophies, no need to get ugly with each other. He makes strange decisions at times but whether you like him or not, its still nice to see the postseason success. Not once have we been runaway favorites to win it all his three years so though we havnt achieved the ultimate goal, i dont think its his fault.
Give an example of a dumb move. Not being disrepsectful either, just interested. Trust me I shake my head at some things that are done, but I usually see the other side of it. Its the "I wouldn't have done it that way" but thats just me. More often than not, it works out.
By the way Hotty Toddy. Geta big homecoming win saturday. Gotta miss it but I'll be back for Auburn!
Well you need to use him in some way otherwise it's a waste of a roster spot that was key and in need last night.
I wouldn't be so critical of these arm chair managers if they would show their face and give credit when Matheny does make the right decisions which is more often than not. They only show up after a defeat or in this case on the brink of elimination from the playoffs. Where were they when we played the dodgers or the last month of the season when we took over the division lead and held on to win it?? Didn't hear much from them then? They only want to call him out when it fits their agenda of trying to be smarter than him.
This philosophy Matheny holds that he has to an emergency long reliever on the roster that he never uses that manifests itself into the playoffs having a young injured starter waste a roster spot. Guess what when we hit the 10th inning that is the situation you have Wacha for.
The whole game 3 Choate usage lost the game that the Cardinals could have won. Choate should have been yanked as soon as Crawford made it on.
The fact that he isn't platooning Grichuk and Taveras when Taveras has as many hits this series as Grichuk and has a HR too.
He has forgotten Bourjos exists in one of the biggest and trickiest OF in baseball.
He doesn't make consistent decisions for consistent reasons so it makes him look like he is pulling names out of a hat when he makes his lineups or bullpen changes.
Please, the epic collapse of the Brewers is the only thing that saved this team. 3 straight NLCS trips and nothing to show for it. A more experienced and competent game manager would have won at least one WS.
Furthermore, you have a long reliever so when a starter gets pulled early you have someone who can go 2-3 innings to bridge the gap. Wacha is supposed to be that guy but he has never used. Why is he on the roster if you dont intend to pitch him? Waiting until extras last night was just stupid.
And I may not have came here, but I commented in other forums about MM's mismanagement. Mathenaging as Viva El Birdos calls it.
He doesn't make the decision correctly more often than the bad one though. Now our opinion may differ on this but that's the way I see it and explain it every time consistently. Name the good decisions he has made this series.
I wouldn't go to Wacha just to go to Wacha, if that makes sense. I think he has been marginally effective since his return and I feel Gonzalez to be sharper at this point. Choate, after raising my blood pressure got out of it in the 4th. Martinez came in, was erratic but worked out of it. Gonzalez (after I just praised him) was bad, just bad. Maybe Wacha there. I guess but Gonzalez had been good and was capabel of going a couple innings. He did walk the lead off hitter and I guess I was more frustrated with the 3-2 back door curve ball he tried to throw which missed terribly. I would like to see him challenge there. However if Adams makes a play at all, they were out of that inning. Instead he bumbled two in a row.
But I completely agree with the roster situation. I would have Freeman in lieu of Choate and honestly, I'd only carry two catchers. I feel pitching is as important as bench players and only carrying 11 (I may be wrong on the number there) while keeping 14 position players doesn't make sense.
Hi, I've been critical of Matheny for awhile now even in wins. Mike is the author of such hits as "Letting Grichuk start against right handers when he can barely hit them," "Letting Randy Choate pitch to right handers who hit for an average better than the career number of Barry Bonds against him" and "Who is this Bourjos guy again?" amongst many other classics. I would say his managerial level is somewhere around "Well at least he isn't Mattingly" tier. Sorry to pile on right now as we are about to lose but sometimes you have to say that you called it and in this case, I called it. Poor decisions cost the team game 3 and they put the team in a position to fail last night. Tired relievers put players on as do bad matchup choices. None of these guys have the magical abilities of Joe Kelly that we all know are pure skill to strand runners aboard so it was only a matter of time before they scored. I hope you all enjoy when we go through this same song and dance in October next year.
My point is everybody else has been in and seen the giants 3-4 games in a row now and they are fatigued. You have a fresh bullpen arm set aside for pitching long innings in extras or pitching long innings in case a starter blows out( like Petit has done for SF twice this postseason). When you don't use him it's an absolute waste of a spot because it makes two things clear:
A) He isn't healthy enough to pitch so he shouldn't even be there
B) He is trying to save him as Waino insurance which is just stupid because the cardinals are more likely to win with Wacha vs Petit/bullpen than Wacha vs Bumgardner.
Good- pinch hitting Tavares twice. Favorable match ups where Tavares was successful. Good- staying with Lackey when it would've been easy to pull him for Wacha. Good-Going with Jay in CF and letting him own every left handed pitcher while playing some pretty good defense. You just can't keep his bat out of the line up. Good- Grichuk in right- I know that kills those who have man crushes on Tavares. But Tavares does not get to balls Grichuk gets to.
But to make the wrong decision more often, as you say, he seems to be pretty successful. Again, not being disrepectful.
3 NLCS trips with at least 1 Pennent is definately "something to show". Hence the banners painted on the dugout.
Well let's be logical here. If we are saying we value defense which is actually my preferred way of thinking why isn't Bourjos in CF and Jay in RF. That minimizes the offensive risk while maximizing the defense.
You can't applaud his use of the Taveras PH and say that we shouldn't want Taveras in against a RHP. If he plays the darn matchups and maximizes the roster I would be happy but he can't seem to do that ever.
I'll be happy to have the opportunity to go through the October song and dance every year. Go talk to folks in Wrigleyville. Go hang with folks in Houston, Seattle, San Diego.
My point is we are the luckiest fans in baseball to even get to discuss October baseball. We are passionate and knowledgable and are able to debate the game. I respect every opinion and have been swayed often by the arguements. But you're arguing philosophies like its an absolute.
I stand by my statement that players win and managers lose.
Like I said earlier, you don't hear a peep from these bandwagon arm chair managers unless it fits their agenda and that is ONLY after they lose. And now that we are one more lose away from the season being over, they are coming out of the wood work saying look how smart I am.
That's just not true
Bunk, Sideline, and Jolly have been on all season so I can't say they pop up during the bad.
Grichuk does have two big home runs though. And a few nice defenive plays. My take on Borgy is his defense is not so great that it trumps Jay's offense. I guess my point is you can't take a guy hitting .500 out of the lineup when he is effective in the outfield. He certainly hasn't cost you any runs this post season.
Grichuk isn't hitting .500 though so respectfully doesn't gel.
Jay is...sorry .480.
So are you improving yourself with Borgy in CF and Jay in RF? Or Jay in CF and Tavares in RF? I just think Jay HAS to play. You could throw Borgy, Grichuk, and Tavares in a hat and call it a push.
His good decisions are not as obvious as his bad ones. The bad ones are magnified cuz they are easier to identify. A glaring error was choosing Choate over Freeman or even Greenwood for that matter. I wish he wouldve recognized that Shelby was ineffective from pitch one. However as it turns out the bullpen sucked anyway. Wacha is too much of an unknown, the longer he goes without pitching the less chance he'll be effective. He is a useless roster spot at this point.
Regardless, the Giants are hitting on all cylinders and wont be stopped. I look for a five or six run win for them tonite. Waino wont last long and then it'll be a long nite. The royals are every bit as hot. Should be an interesting Series between the two.
The argument was for Bourjos in CF and Jay in RF. No one said anything about benching Jay.
Its natural to slam the managers. Managers are like umpires. Good calls are never praised. Bad calls are reaming material.
Here is the optimistic side of things. Waino comes out pitches like Waino and wins a tight 1 run game. Then there is no way you can convince me that Lynn and Lackey can't out pitch Peavy and Hudson in STL.
I'll buy it, strictly because I don't think you've changed anything in that situation. Grickuk/Borgy is a push. Borgy better defense/push offense.
I personally want an arm in RF which Grichuk has over Jay. Heck, my 13 y/o has a better arm in RF! I'm ok with either or. I still feel Grichuk is a plus offensively over Borgy.
Not really. Bourjos defense is ridiculous and Grichuk is bad offensively when he isn't getting a HR cut.
And Bourjas is bad offensively to where Grichuk is above average defensively. So what are you really improving. Has Grichuk cost you a game defensively? And will Bourjas win you a game offensively. Probably no to both. I guess my point being is Grichuk playing and Bourjas not really affecting this series?
Game 3 and he his no show defense cost us 2 runs. I say only 2 because a fly ball that far would score the run, but it would not score the other 2.
This is really the first time I have 100% agreed with Bunk and Sideline on anything.
And comparing the Cardinals to the Cubs is awful! This organization is used to winning championship, the Cubs would be satisfied with a playoff.
My point Jolly is that this orgnaization puts teams together that will compete in October. Thus we are privelaged to have these conversations. The Cubs organization does not. Hiring guys like Matheny, LaRussa, Petinni, Duncan, Oquendo, and so on show they are putting a competitive product out there. My comment was to point out we have this opportunity each year. Those organizations do not.
Again, I'll take losing in the post season over not getting to the post season. And last I checked, the post season is still going for us.
This team would be doing more than just getting to the postseason if we had a competent manager who wouldn't blink during an in game crisis. If this team had a competent manager we would be winning Word Series Championships....not just getting to the playoffs and that is what a lot of fans are now realizing. Matheny had absolutely no clue with his bullpen. Wasting roster spots year after freaking year for what ifs is stupid.
I respectfully disagree mr dump. The only st louis coach who has cost us a world championship is Mad Mike Martz. Got schooled by Belichick despite being 2 TD faves in '02. Matheny coulda beaten Martz in that game.
You're right. I'll not argue Matheny's competency anymore.
Lets move on to the come back that begins tonight.
The Giants are schooling us. Bochy isnt schooling us, the TEAM is. No errors, no walks, no throwing the ball to wrong bases like a rec league sofbawl team. When ur players arent playing up to their potential the manager is helpless, absolutely nothn he can do about it. Our players are simply performing as poorly this series as they played magnificently last series. If we make the routine plays weve botched this series, its at least tied and headn back to st loo. Matheny has absolutely nothn to do with the double digit blunders weve made in this series.
Ciri, I am still adamant that SpyGate had a huge hand in us losing that Super Bowl. The NFL, Goodell, Bellichick can go *expletive* themselves!
A very very bitter defeat, right up there with getting Denkingered
Ciri, I have never excused the blunders. I have criticized the pitching choices. Leaving Choate in during Game 3, not using Wacha during Game 4 instead of burning through the bullpen, leaving Bourjas and OT on the bench, letting Grickuk bat against righties, etc. No one in their right mind would excuse the blunders with Adams, Grichuk, Choate, etc.
Im just saying the player errors, physical and mental, have far outweighed any managing errors. Every error has led to a crucial run. SF is letting us hand them the LCS.
A little different line-up for the Cardinals tonight. Jay is batting second while Grichuk moves down to sixth with Wong seventh. I would like to see Wong batting higher in the line-up as hot as he is.
Waino looking great early, like his old self!
Should've stayed with Wainwright.
Waino looked like Ace Waino. He pitched a great game. Its a shame the bullpen went to crap.
In the word of the great Steve Spurrier, "Welp."
I agree preach. Neshek has been tough but should've ridden that horse another inning.
18 weeks til pitchers and catchers report. I'll be counting it down.
I'd have stayed with him the whole game. Waino had his best stuff in his last two innings! He wouldn't have pitched again this series anyway. Why not get all you can out of him?
Well I guess we're all Royals fans now! Lol.
I am a lifetime baseball player, coach and fan. This NCLS showed me simply that the GIANTS were a clutch team during the times they needed it most. I have not been a Mike Matheny fan since the 2012 NLCS loss. I am looking forward to a good WORLD SERIES. GO ROYALS!!
Well on the one hand Matheny used Wacha. On the other hand Matheny used Wacha in the 9th inning of a tie ball game with the season on the line with 3 weeks rest. If this was game 1 or 3 or 4 I wouldn't have had a problem with the move if it hadn't been a situation with no margin for error. He should have yanked him after the first walk too.
Nope....I hate KC and I hate their fanbase. Bunch losers dont even support their team until the last two weeks of the season. Thats pathetic.
I am cheering for the Giants. Bochy is a future Hall of Fame manager.
I hate both. I hope there is some unforeseen work stoppage.
When you combine poor hitting with RISP, poor defense, poor pitching and poor managing you get an early tee time. I enjoyed debating the Cards this summer and would argue that it was a successful season. Look forward to next year.
When you get a Tony Cruz HR to take the lead you can't blame offense. Another mathenging moment was in the top of the 9th when he pulls Bourjos for Taveras. I know he is thinking power in that scenario but here is the rub. Bochy obviously got Affelt up to deal the bevy of LH PH or Marp if it came to it. Casilla wasn't good and if he leaves in
Bourjos to force Bochy to keep Casilla in the ball game for one more at bat.
I sorta think Matheny went all in in the top of the 9th. Pulling Holiday the inning before, pinch running for Adams and all. I think he was trying to win ir at that moment and honestly he was 6 inches from pulling it off. Sandoval deflects a ball right to Crawford and kills that inning.
I personally would've like to see Waino demand and fight to stay in instead of telling Matheny he was done after the 7th. I just miss Chris Carpenter there.
I don't think you could have asked more of Waino than that considering his health concerns on and off in the 2nd half. Both Blanco and Panik would have seen him for the fourth time in that ball game after getting hits off of Waino previously and you had the unknown with Morse PH. I feel like he came knowing he needed to get ball to Neshek in the 8th with a lead and that's what he did.
We really missed Siegrist, wish he coulda been like he was last year.
Matheny was definitely playing to win in the top of the 9th. That's why he used Taveras because the man can get a bat on any ball in and out the zone. It just wasn't smart matchup wise. Perhaps Casilla on 3 days straight of work walks Bourjos. Than the bottom of the 9th is a totally different ordeal.
I agree but I think the though process was use Tavares because he was swinging a hot bat and it was a chance to chase the closer. However, Casilla was doing his best Rosenthal impersonation.
The key thing we will never know is what would have happened if he left Bourjos in the game. Affeldt was only coming in if OT was pinch hitting.
That was just great managing there by Bochy
And it was an even better pitch sequence by Affedlt to keep Oscar off balance.
I have to say, though...Go Giants. I just can't get passed the '85 thievery.
Noted journalist and Cards fan Will Leitch really did a nice job getting into the incompetence of Matheny in his column.
I can't wait until next season! Mike Matheny will be the Cardinal's Manager! All of the young talent will have one more year experience under their belt. Hopefully Wainwright, Wacha, and Molina come back 100% healthy and all of these arm chair managing bandwagon fans will have to sit through another year of Mad Mike Matheny leading the Cardinals to the playoffs! It's going to be great! Good season boys! Go Cardinals!
I think this is the only team in the history of baseball that has lost their last 3 playoff games, 3 years in a row.
2012 - Up 3-1 games to San Fran, lose series 3-4.
2013 - Up 2-1 games to Boston, lose series 2-4.
2014 - Series tied 1-1 with San Fran, lose series 1-4.
The players get experience but not our manager, who makes the same stupid mistakes 3 years later!
2002 up 1-0 lose next 4 (Anaheim)
2003 up 1-0 lose next 3 (NY)
2004 up 1-0 lose next 3 (NY)
1999 0-4 in WS (NY)
2000 0-3 NLCS (STL)
2001 tied 1-1 lost next 3 (ATL)
Bobby Cox HOF manager
Detroit almost in 2012, 2013, 2014
I know. I need something better to do on a Friday night!!
haha Wow! Thanks for the great research.
Amazing how Matheny gets blamed for every single reliever imploding in this last series. He got no credit for the relievers awesome job in the LA series yet he's the whipping boy for the SF series. Why not blame Lilliquist? Same thing happened two years ago except the batters disappeared the last three games. Remember? We scored exactly two runs the last three games of that SF series. If you can explain to me how its Matheny's fault that our relievers sucked this year and that our hitters sucked two years ago then i will jump on the Matheny haters bandwagon. Can a manager be so good as to reverse a crappy bullpen performance and a crappy run production? I think not.
Jolly, I'm a baseball reference.com junkie! Ha. It's been good to debate the Cardinals with you guys. I'll always respect intelligent fans like you guys on here, so don't take any of my comments personal or as attacks. All in good conversation.
Well two of my personal friends have joined the Matheny hating-bandwagon.
No one is blaming MM for the players not performing. They are blaming him for how he managers the games. ESPN, VivaElBirdos, and several other sites have pointed to Matheny's managing tactics for the teams pitching failures.
I am interested to know how Matheny's managing made the bullpen pitchers suck in the SF series. Im not saying the scribes are wrong but im perplexed as to what decisions he made to cause every reliever to walk batters, pitch up in the zone, and basically do everything wrong. What did the scribes specifically say he did to make every relief pitcher ineffective vs SF. Cuz they were lights out vs LA. I agree with Bernie M in the P-D, he blames the failure on the teams poor performance. If the pen doesnt implode and the defense doesnt get the yips we'd still be playing ball.
For starters: Game 3
1. Taking Lackey out of the game with only 79 pitches
2. Leaving Choate in the game, after the walk, to face a RH bat. That made sense to leave him because RHers are hitting him hard this year. It also made less sense because the next hitter, a LH, was batting .396
3. Failure to use statistics with matchups, such as point #2 above
4. Using Maness and Neshek after each one was very effective in their brief outing
Of course the players are responsible for their performance but the managers job is still to make sure the players are placed in a position to win. Many of us feel that Matheny does not do that.
Lets remember we lost our closer due to a nervous breakdown. If rosey hadnt imploded, matheny wouldve had his regular seasonlong reliever rotation. Losing rosey screwed everything up. Matheny was handcuffed, any reliever he put in woulda sucked.
We are just going to have to disagree on this. I am no longer a fan of MM and I have not been since the World Series last year. He just seems to spazz out and blink come playoff time. Its too fast for him and he fails to think 2-3 innings ahead.
Ok! 2015 is just around the corner, we'll do it again next year!
Leaving Choate in to pitch to the RH who was up there to bunt? Lets not forget that. The entire planet knew he was in to bunt, and he attempted 2x. But Choate threw two nasty pitches to have him 0-2. The base hit was a ground ball and if the defense was not playing double play depth (which they needed to be_), thats a ground ball out. But they were and it got through. Blanco, a lefty, was then up there to bunt. Which and he did and Choate threw it away. So, let me understand. You'd burn a reliever to come in after the walk merely to pitch to a guy who is bunting? I know, I know, you can point to the end result. But the end result was due to lack of execution NOT a managerial mistake.
Agreed! And then in game five i was beggin matheny to leave Waino in til his arm fell off. Turns out Waino took himself outta game, Neshek failed, hadda pinch hit for him, and then Matheny was doomed cuz no other relievers wooda had success. At least Wacha was a fresh arm, and he was throwing 98, but we were doomed.
Choate is terrible against RH bats, yes I would burn a reliever because he is terrible against HR batters. Furthermore it made no senese, 0 freaking sense, to leave Choate in after the walk! He is awful against righties and the next Batter, Blanco, even though he is a left handed hitter, was 3-for-6 with 2 doubles against Choate! If Matheny is going to ignore advanced stats, that is poor and terrible managing in the playoffs. If you guys want ot support him, go ahead, but do not try to convince the rest of us that he is not to blame for the loss.
Bottom line is Choate didnt belong on any team's postseason roster. Because he was on ours shoulda been a hint that our pen was inferior to to everyone but the Dodgers. Mattingly had to overextend Kershaw twice due to his horrible pen. Well, the cards had the second worst pen of the playoff teams and it cost us the LCS. Matheny may have made mistakes but he had a pretty poor hand dealt to him. If he woulda made silly moves with talented relievers then i'd be more apt to agree with the Matheny-haters.
Bobby Cox won 1 WS whilst winning about 15 division titles inna row. And he had twice the pitching staff we have. He needs to have his HOF status revoked.
Actually the Tigers had the worst pen going into the postseaon. Choate probably could play for the Tigers. They would welcome him with their staff. Hopefully Siegrist can make a comeback next year, after a horrible sophmore season.
Joe Maddon has opted out of his deal with Rays. Let's pray Mo does the right thing and makes this move.
And Wainwright underwent arthroscopic procedure today to trim small piece of cartilage in his right elbow
Hard to fire a manager who went NLCS, WS, NLCS in his first three years of managing ever.
I dont see the Cards eve winning a WS with Matheny *sigh* And I dont freaking trust what the Cards say about pitching injuries. This has all the bad signs written around it.
RIP Oscar Taveras. He and his girlfriend were killed today in car wreck in the Dominican Republic. Our prayers go out to his family, his girlfriend's family, and the Cardinals organization. A black day for Cardinals Nation to be sure.
RIP to Oscar and his girlfriend. Very tragic. I am so bummed out now.
This is so sad. Oscar was an amazing person on and off the field..
Oscar 22 and girlfriend 18 so young and so very sad.
The Cubs appear to be on the verge of hiring Joe Madden as their manager. Of course, no official announcement can be made during the World Series.
The Cubs are building a powerhouse, like, a dynasty type. The hiring of Maddon is probably the final piece where they will now compete for the World Series every single year. As a diehard Cards fan, it just makes me mad that they have finally figured it out, because they just have more resources than St. Louis and it's going to be tough for us to catch them once they finally pass us.
Cubs, powerhouse, dynasty and world series all mentioned in the same sentence?! Let's let them have a winning season before we start declaring them team of the decade haha
This is the cubs we are talking about and maddon is a good manager not a miracle worker.
Outside Rizzo and soler their lineup does not scare me. Even with possibly getting Lester, their rotation is mediocre at best.
Wow how many world series has Maddon or the Cubs won! Calm down Razor
2 of the top 5 prospects, Lester and Max Scherzer probably this offseason, and now Maddon. How many have we won since we let Pujols go? How many has Matheny won? I feel like WE should have gone after Maddon!
If I wasn't sold on MM before, I definitely am not sold now. Division just got tougher we have a manager who blinks in the playoffs.
Same thing was said bout the Reds a few years back. The Cubs are doing everything right, hiring Theo was huge a couple years ago. They need lights out startn pitching to seal the deal, so we shall see. My theory is Wrigley Field is a real downer for the players. I know fans think its cool but the dugouts are sardine cans and the bullpen area sucks and im sure the lockerrooms are very subpar. Of course Fenway blows my theory outta the water but i really do think Wrigley is not a fun place to play 81 games a year.
Actually, I remember reading on STLToday how small the clubhouses are at Wrigley. The Cards elected to keep players that were sick at the hotel instead of bringing them to the clubhouse.
As far as the Cubs go, I'll believe it when I see it. They've had top prospects and good managers before. Anybody remember Woods and Pryor? How did that work out for the Cubbies?
I would bet anybody anything that the Cardinals win another World Series before the cubs. The cubs' fans got real excited not too long ago when they all of these "great" prospects and Lou Piniella coming on board to manage. How did that work out for them?
A) Preach they a game away from the WS in 03 but Dusty pitched Woods and Pryor to hell that year and that was that. So it was a really good team.
B) This isn't just 2-3 prospects it's like 8-9 hitting prospects even it some flame out, bust, or are just ok some will hit their very high ceilings. Rizzo is about there already.
C) Free agents like money so they will play there no matter how crappy the dugout/clubhouse is. They have paid for players before they just let a dummy like Hendrix pick them.
D) Theo is smart he has done this before so why doubt him?
E) Maddon is GREAT I would take him over Matheny everyday but there is no way you are dumping Mike after this 3 year run and any negative heat he garnered in the playoffs was quelled by the awesome way he handled Oscar's passing. I think Mike is a great person just a bad manager.
In conclusion this Cubs as a long term threat is real and has legs. It may not be next year but they are coming and they will eventually buy or trade for enough pitching to matter.
A through E you got every point exactly right, Bunk! The Cubs are coming and if we keep knocking them like we kept doing with Pitt the last 3 years, we are in for a rude awakening.
You might be right Bunk and Jolly. Yes that 2003 team was really good, but they just couldn't get it done. Like I said, we are talking about the Cubs, so I'll believe it when I see it.
It's been 106 years since they've won the World Series. 106 years! They last won it all in 1908! Theo has been there several years now. Have they come close to contending? They've had great talent and great managers before. Has it mattered?
Furthermore, can Joe Madden really feel good about the way he was hired? Rivera was fired after one season. Theo said publicly he would be back next season. But the minute Madden was available, he tossed the poor guy overboard. Yet another example of why the Cubs are the Cubs.
A lot of people who think like Epstein think Maddon is the best manager in baseball so if you have a chance to go get him you go get him.
Maddon is a good hire, but I stand by MM and the Birds. Teams in the Central have all tried, but the bottom line is the Cards from top to bottom are the best organization in the Central! The Reds, Brewers, Pirates, and now the Cubs all have had their chances and the Cards always seem to come out on top and hopefully that trend will continue. The loss of Oscar and not the hiring of Maddon could be the thing that swings the pendulum in the favor of the Cubs, but it won't be next year.
The Cubs have never had talent like this Preach. They have the minor league player of the year and the top farm system. They have NEVER had that before, and now a manager who most feel is the best in the game. Like Bunk said, Rizzo is already there, and they are about to get Lester and another top rotation. Now I see Russell Martin is about to go there. Sheesh. I knew it would eventually happen that they got really good, but I didn't think it would be this quick.
Theo's got it goin on....
Razor, that 2003 team was loaded too. I bet if we looked back over the last 106 years we would find some pretty salty Cubs teams, farm systems, etc. But until they actually win a World Series...we're still talking about the Cubs!
When did the cubs become really good? As good as Maddon is, he has only been to the postseason 4 out of the 9 seasons he was managing the rays and only one of those appearances went past the division series.
Razor, I am quite the semoball troll as many have stated, and I hope you are still around here the middle of next baseball season when your cubs are looking up at everyone else in the division like they are accustomed to doing.
Again, if they purchase some startn pitchers they will make some noise. Same ole baby bears if they dont.
This is more of a long term problem than just a next year thing in my mind. I don't think they get more than one big name starter this year but they could get a few if they wanted. They will probably sign them as all the guys come up and mature into major league sluggers. They also have a little surplus so they probably trade a guy like Starlin Castro mid season to a contender or a rebuilder for rental pitching and afford to sign that pitcher back if need be. It's real and just saying CUBS is dumb.
Well I am a troll and that is what trolls do is say dumb things.
I can't wait to see every single cubs top prospect grow up to become a major league slugger, because that will be a first time ever occurrence in baseball.
It's good to know the Cardinals and the rest of the central teams are going to step aside and try not to improve also so the cubs can finally have their shot at glory.
Cards will be there but this will be a tightly contested Cards v Cubs division a la the Boston v New York stretch there in the 2000s
Cubs are not relevant yet. There is a lot of what ifs until that point. We will see. Im much more worried about every other team in the central.
I for one would like to see the Cards go after Micheal Cudyer. They could use another bat. A guy that could probably fill in at first base too.
Lot of ifs and no track record. Now if you said what if the Birds went out and got Stanton and add that to their track record you might have a point. If the Cubs do this and if they do that is just hope and hope is not a strategy
A year later and ole Razor seems to have been right on the money. I'll be interested to see if any of the posters above who tried to take shots at my predictions will come back and discuss this off season.
Well done Razor. Pretty much nailed it. I hate the Cubs so I'm glad they got beat by the Mets and they still haven't won a World Series since 1908.
Well thank you. It's nice to be appreciated. I liked baseball long before I had any particular team so I generally enjoy discussing things as a whole. I don't "hate" any team as you've said about Chicago. But, I also don't wear fan goggles either, as most in this forum do. I get it's a Cards forum, but to be blind to other teams just doesn't merit much to a real baseball discussion.
My Grandpa and dad both hated the Cubs and I just can't break the cycle. Molina and Grichuk have gone under the knife. The injuries have just continued to pile up. This team as it stands right now is not going to win 100 games.
Posting a comment requires free registration: